A RealGM Scandal, and a Conversation about Projects

[sp6r=underrated]

Thanks for the responses. I asked because I'm on twitter and a lot, not all but alot of twitter accounts with anime profile pics, are clearly pornheads or autists.

I'm not really knowledgeable about any of this, but then I'm old as well. I do, however, find it funny that somebody would stop watching their favorite show just to be "right" on the internet.

He's a nut or 14 or unemployed.

[ronnymac2]

Should the sun rain fire, Should hell on earth freeze over, And our enemies wait hungry, See our better nature feed them...

Hopefully these individuals get the mental health treatment they require. Sincerely.

But if they are allowed to continue perpetrating their fraudulent schemes, why have terms and conditions of the forum? Why tally any votes in this Peaks project, or any project thereafter?

The importance of asserting the terms and conditions of the forum should be self-explanatory and obvious to any good-meaning, sane adult who frequents the forum.

As for the votes...I've read that the votes don't matter nearly as much as the content itself. Sure, but the votes still matter. The votes are generally - and ideally - informed by the content.

And if a participant agrees to a specific voting system and votes their conscience in good-faith, only to find out later that the voting system was circumvented by bad faith-actors, then they have the right to wonder out loud why they adhered to a voting system when others did not without consequence. What makes the bad-faith actors superior? What incentive is there to continue operating in good-faith?

I've read that the showrunner of the Peaks project knowingly allowing this fraud to occur shouldn't be considered egregious.

A pirate disrupts and steals from literally 100% of ships from Country Z running through a strait. Then one day, he allows one ship from Country Z to pass through the strait, and that ship's cargo and passengers end up successfully conducting a damaging assault on Country X. Do you not think County X will levy reprecussions upon both Country Z AND that pirate? Do you think that pirate isn't fully complicit in the damaging scheme?

I invite the moderators (or whoever has governing authority) to consider being as aggressive and harsh as possible when it comes to any suspected proxies. It feels like there is resistance to this, driven by a fear of the board appearing uninviting or restrictive.

Consider that appeasement and a laisez-faire attitude have perhaps made the board appear uninviting, restrictive, and less appealing for a non-insignificant period of time, and displaying the courage to ruthlessly rout these proxies would be a step toward restoring the perception that good-faith discussion won't be hindered by free-reigning fraudsters and their satellite suck-ups.

[babyjax13]

This thread has piqued my conspiratorial scent and I swear, I can sense at least 3-4 alt accounts in this very thread alone. I don’t have proof but I can’t help but notice them. It’s really bizarre, maybe I’m going crazy.

For me it's that KembaWalker dude's posts quietly getting scrubbed. He had at least like 4 on this thread and they're all gone. Weird stuff

Kemba isn't someone to suspect. Long time, respected poster with some strong opinions. I love our Charlotte fans on the board, one of my favorite groups.

[jalengreen]

This thread has piqued my conspiratorial scent and I swear, I can sense at least 3-4 alt accounts in this very thread alone. I don’t have proof but I can’t help but notice them. It’s really bizarre, maybe I’m going crazy.

For me it's that KembaWalker dude's posts quietly getting scrubbed. He had at least like 4 on this thread and they're all gone. Weird stuff

Kemba isn't someone to suspect. Long time, respected poster with some strong opinions. I love our Charlotte fans on the board, one of my favorite groups.

Oh I don't suspect him to be an alt. I found it surprising that his posts were disappearing

I can't say I'm fully comfortable doing this, but Ohayo asked me to post a message they wrote about this whole thing here. Obviously I was a member of their Discord server, though if you look at my posting history, I didn't fellow their lead on the project votes at all. I was actually invited to their server after I joined the forum, if you can believe it. In any case, this is what they said:

Thats actually hilarious, I totally forgot all about that. Like half a dozen ballboys in a row posting the same rearranged "arguments" that all spelled Michael as Micheal . With the fact that he even recalls that specific post more than I do combined with the obvious pathological liar/antisocial traits I believe one can safely assume he views that one as one of his biggest scripting slip ups.

i think its quite interesting that Ohayos 3rd party response post as a banned poster is staying up, which obviously cannot be following any proper rules, but my reply to it as someone specifically called out in it is getting straight up deleted with no warnings or explanation. theres quite obviously, and this is confirmed in DMs to me already, still plenty of people and a handful of mods that are protecting specific people in this thread that were or are involved in this stuff.

a lot of them are in here completely failing at not telling on themselves as obviously as Ohayo and AE did

lots of scrubbing around all this will continue to be the norm, one can assume

Both of these are gone, pretty sure parsnips quoted him couple pages ago too and that one is gone. Doesn't have a single post on this thread still up. Maybe he's deleting it himself idk how it works but just noticed it and found it odd

[babyjax13]

For me it's that KembaWalker dude's posts quietly getting scrubbed. He had at least like 4 on this thread and they're all gone. Weird stuff

Kemba isn't someone to suspect. Long time, respected poster with some strong opinions. I love our Charlotte fans on the board, one of my favorite groups.

Oh I don't suspect him to be an alt. I found it surprising that his posts were disappearing

I can't say I'm fully comfortable doing this, but Ohayo asked me to post a message they wrote about this whole thing here. Obviously I was a member of their Discord server, though if you look at my posting history, I didn't fellow their lead on the project votes at all. I was actually invited to their server after I joined the forum, if you can believe it. In any case, this is what they said:

Thats actually hilarious, I totally forgot all about that. Like half a dozen ballboys in a row posting the same rearranged "arguments" that all spelled Michael as Micheal . With the fact that he even recalls that specific post more than I do combined with the obvious pathological liar/antisocial traits I believe one can safely assume he views that one as one of his biggest scripting slip ups.

i think its quite interesting that Ohayos 3rd party response post as a banned poster is staying up, which obviously cannot be following any proper rules, but my reply to it as someone specifically called out in it is getting straight up deleted with no warnings or explanation. theres quite obviously, and this is confirmed in DMs to me already, still plenty of people and a handful of mods that are protecting specific people in this thread that were or are involved in this stuff.

a lot of them are in here completely failing at not telling on themselves as obviously as Ohayo and AE did

lots of scrubbing around all this will continue to be the norm, one can assume

Both of these are gone, pretty sure parsnips quoted him couple pages ago too and that one is gone. Doesn't have a single post on this thread still up. Maybe he's deleting it himself idk how it works but just noticed it and found it odd

I deleted one or two of mine. Sometimes you say something and decide it is better to not!

[therealbig3]

Seriously?!!

I have to ask, and this is a genuine age-related question, is anime mainly porn or real tv shows?

Anime (アニメ) refers to the so-called "Japanese" style of animation. One Piece, Dragon Ball, Naruto, etc. are examples. Yes, there's apparently anime porn as well, but that's usually referred to as "hentai" or "hentai anime."

I'm not really knowledgeable about any of this, but then I'm old as well. I do, however, find it funny that somebody would stop watching their favorite show just to be "right" on the internet.

Yeah sure thing guys, you have NO idea about it. Sure.

[AussieBuck]

I got a PM from this guy in December 2023 inviting me to a discord. Here I was thinking I was an esteemed poster instead of someone who I guess said that not having MJ as GOAT is entirely defensible.

[Joao Saraiva]

I am actually KD's burner account, but it's the only one I use, so it's OK right?

[jjgp111292]

I have to ask, and this is a genuine age-related question, is anime mainly porn or real tv shows?

Anime (アニメ) refers to the so-called "Japanese" style of animation. One Piece, Dragon Ball, Naruto, etc. are examples. Yes, there's apparently anime porn as well, but that's usually referred to as "hentai" or "hentai anime."

I'm not really knowledgeable about any of this, but then I'm old as well. I do, however, find it funny that somebody would stop watching their favorite show just to be "right" on the internet.

Yeah sure thing guys, you have NO idea about it. Sure.

Okay now you guys are sounding old because anime is not some niche thing and probably hasn't been for like 25 years now

[Ron Swanson]

I find certain posts in this thread pretty illuminating.

The fact that certain posters didn't seem bothered by what transpired is telling to me.

Sadly, this shouldn't be surprising. I do kinda feel that the "integrity of this board" stuff is a bit overkill, but I certainly would never denigrate someone for actually wanting this to be a place of rules and ethical standards.

This was the proverbial straw-that-broke-the-camel's-back, but equally concerning and baffling to me is how someone with such a well documented history of extremely questionable (to put it kindly) objectivity and lack of decorum towards other posters was even allowed to run these projects in the first place. Which is funny because I never even had anything besides mostly pleasant interactions with this poster, but the problem of fostering this kind of environment where these two can pull this kind of crap, is largely due to a lot of people (not just alt/burner accounts) excusing, ignoring, or being outright apologists for these guys' in those same project threads.

Not exactly a coincidence that some of the same voices now engaging in whataboutism and deflection here ("I think people are being too serious", "I thought only Player X stans were this obnoxious", blah blah) were these guys' biggest cheerleaders/supporters and conveniently didn't bat an eye when other posters were, in hindsight, rightfully calling this obvious scheme out even back in the 2024 RPOTY project. If those people who were clearly aware of this (and many of them definitely were) weren't straight up championing the effort, at the very least they were more than fine with it happening. I'd say this should be an opportunity for those same people to look in the mirror a bit and think of what this all says about entrenched biases and how we tend to look past blatantly anti-social/toxic people's behavior just because their beliefs might align with mine, but I won't hold my breath.

I don't have much else to add at this point, but I would just say as a community note, it's probably important to be more conscious of and call out this kind of stuff before it gets this bad and alienates so much participation (whether that's using the report function more, PM'ing mods, engaging without escalating further, whatever). The PC board becoming sort of the butt end of a joke on this site as a den of contrarianism and intellectual gate-keeping isn't a label that it deserves, but this whole thing certainly doesn't help that narrative.

[RCM88x]

Thank you to the moderators who worked hard to get this cleaned up and for being dedicated to the board on a volunteer basis. Keeping up with things and contributing at a high level is a hard enough job let alone running the whole thing.

The projects on this board, to me at least, are only as worthwhile as the quality of the process taken by contributors.

[lessthanjake]

This was the proverbial straw-that-broke-the-camel's-back, but equally concerning and baffling to me is how someone with such a well documented history of extremely questionable (to put it kindly) objectivity and lack of decorum towards other posters was even allowed to run these projects in the first place. Which is funny because I never even had anything besides mostly pleasant interactions with this poster, but the problem of fostering this kind of environment where these two can pull this kind of crap, is largely due to a lot of people (not just alt/burner accounts) excusing, ignoring, or being outright apologists for these guys' in those same project threads.

Not exactly a coincidence that some of the same voices now engaging in whataboutism and deflection here ("I think people are being too serious", "I thought only Player X stans were this obnoxious", blah blah) were these guys' biggest cheerleaders/supporters and conveniently didn't bat an eye when other posters were, in hindsight, rightfully calling this obvious scheme out even back in the 2024 RPOTY project. If those people who were clearly aware of this (and many of them definitely were) weren't straight up championing the effort, at the very least they were more than fine with it happening. I'd say this should be an opportunity for those same people to look in the mirror a bit and think of what this all says about entrenched biases and how we tend to look past blatantly anti-social/toxic people's behavior just because their beliefs might align with mine, but I won't hold my breath.

Yeah, I think an important thing to recognize here is that this was not something done privately between OhayoKD and AEnigma. As I understand it, it was actually openly plotted and discussed on a Discord server that a significant portion of this board is on. Unsurprisingly, that includes the vast majority of people who are being apologists for OhayoKD/AEnigma in this thread. Of course, they have a bit of an ingrained interest in downplaying or engaging in whataboutism about something that they were aware of and actively ignored or covered for. Granted, being on a Discord server does not mean you actually read what’s on it, so merely being on that server does not necessarily mean someone had awareness of what was going on. But, as I understand it, there’s plenty of people here that are active members of that Discord, and therefore almost certainly had a good idea what was going on. Those people did not alert anyone to it, and in many cases were effectively cheerleaders for it. I won’t name names, but those people know who they are and I think most other posters here have a good idea who they are. And I agree that they should really take a look in the mirror and think about how their biases led them to look past this behavior (or even cheerlead for it), and perhaps think about how they can regain some of the credibility that they have unfortunately now lost.

[lessthanjake]

And if simply knowing about Ohayo’s activities is enough for AEnigma to be called out by name, then congrats, you’ve implicated half the forum. tsherkin and BadGatorade are in there. 70sfan like he said was around for a bit. The creators of MAMBA and BPM are in there. Most of the people pulled in from this forum were invited because of their pre-existing stances on MJ. It’s not some anti-MJ child grooming ring with AI bot accounts. It's a single schizoposter on a basketball forum. Let's stop acting like this is Watergate.

I just noticed the bolded, and it reminded me of the fact that OhayoKD and AEnigma did not just try to corrupt RealGM votes, but also tried to corrupt actual statistical measures, in particular the MAMBA measure that is mentioned above.

The below is a discussion they had with the creator of MAMBA about the measure:





While I can’t actually say for sure that there’s a direct causal relationship here, it is certainly quite interesting that after OhayoKD said “why dont u save the bron good version for later,” there was indeed a second version of MAMBA released that did have LeBron doing significantly better than the first version did. Prior to being made aware of the above, I’d already suspected based on some things in the creator’s writeup that the second version may have specifically aimed to have LeBron do better. And amusingly, after I mentioned that possibility, it was AEnigma and OhayoKD who produced quotes from the creator vehemently denying that. See: https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=2426536&start=60. The fact that AEnigma pressured the creator to find a way to make LeBron look better and OhayoKD told him to “save the bron good version for later” does not *necessarily* mean that that’s why a second version of the metric was created that did indeed have LeBron doing better. But it definitely makes you wonder. And it definitely shows that the two of them were at least *trying* to corrupt an impact measure (and circumstantial evidence suggests there’s a good chance they succeeded).

Of course, this is arguably a bit off topic here, since the thread is specifically about OhayoKD and AEnigma corrupting RealGM votes. But I think it is worth flagging that the two of them have tried to corrupt more than just that, and that we should probably be aware of that, because it demonstrates that their efforts have not just been aimed at the output of votes but also at the inputs to peoples’ votes.

[NO-KG-AI]

I don’t trust any number or tracking they ever documented themselves unless it’s verified by someone that isn’t an absolute sociopath. Their circle jerk threads with their friends and alts were cringe enough.

Honestly the biggest goofball ring ever encountered in basketball talk.

[One_and_Done]

I don’t trust any number or tracking they ever documented themselves unless it’s verified by someone that isn’t an absolute sociopath. Their circle jerk threads with their friends and alts were cringe enough.

Honestly the biggest goofball ring ever encountered in basketball talk.

My skeptical approach to home-brewed stats seems to be yet another W for me on this thread:
viewtopic.php?t=2402176#p114793216

[70sFan]

I don’t trust any number or tracking they ever documented themselves unless it’s verified by someone that isn’t an absolute sociopath. Their circle jerk threads with their friends and alts were cringe enough.

Honestly the biggest goofball ring ever encountered in basketball talk.

My skeptical approach to home-brewed stats seems to be yet another W for me on this thread:
viewtopic.php?t=2402176#p114793216

Well, not at all. It's a completely different situation. I don't know if you don't understand that or just try to impress someone.

[parsnips33]

The important thing is we all remain committed to racking up Ws

[Doctor MJ]

Folks,

So you know I'm looking to end this thread later today, get a sense of all the ideas people have, talk about it with other mods, and then make another thread totally focused the Conservation about Projects.

[Ron Swanson]

I don’t trust any number or tracking they ever documented themselves unless it’s verified by someone that isn’t an absolute sociopath.

And this is the real unfortunate thing, isn't it? To spend so many hours, days, and years on this forum lecturing others about "data-driven approaches" only for all their own tracking data, and whatever concocted all-in-one "impact" metrics to be forever tainted/asterisked because none of us know at this point how much they were juicing the numbers for the sole purpose of pushing a specific agenda. All that work, time, and effort just flushed down the credibility drain.

This is actually even more wild than the vote-rigging stuff. "Manipulate the data to achieve a desired outcome" is bad-faith arguing 101, and these dudes made it their entire identity as being the "show your work/all relevant data" knobs that I referenced earlier. It all just ended up being a parody of itself.

[Texas Chuck]

The important thing is we all remain committed to racking up Ws

+1,000. The whole issue is 2 posters consuming with winning and the its nbd guy is also consumed with winning. Probably just a weird coincidence though.