Artis Gilmore

[kcktiny]

in his second decade, he got significantly slower and less physical... and his defense declined a lot.

In his second decade Kareem was voted all-defensive 1st team twice (ages 32 and 33), all-defensive 2nd team once (age 36). Voted on by NBA head coaches.

Helluva decline.

[penbeast0]

in his second decade, he got significantly slower and less physical... and his defense declined a lot.

In his second decade Kareem was voted all-defensive 1st team twice (ages 32 and 33), all-defensive 2nd team once (age 36). Voted on by NBA head coaches.

Helluva decline.

Awards are often a couple of years behind reality especially for all time greats . . . see fellow Laker Kobe Bryant and his All-D awards. I can't say without doing some deep study to see when his fall off came, but I have always assumed it paralleled his drop in rebounding numbers, minutes, and DWS dropped off around 1982.

[One_and_Done]

I rate Gilmore. He'd have translated today quite well.

[70sFan]

I rate Gilmore. He'd have translated today quite well.

So will you be willing to tell me this time what separates Artis Gilmore from Wilt Chamberlain in terms of skillset?

[One_and_Done]

I rate Gilmore. He'd have translated today quite well.

So will you be willing to tell me this time what separates Artis Gilmore from Wilt Chamberlain in terms of skillset?

Has anyone said Wilt wouldn't be able to play today?

[70sFan]

I rate Gilmore. He'd have translated today quite well.

So will you be willing to tell me this time what separates Artis Gilmore from Wilt Chamberlain in terms of skillset?

Has anyone said Wilt wouldn't be able to play today?

I have never seen you saying that Wilt would have "translated today quite well".

Who do you think would be better today then - Artis or Wilt?

[One_and_Done]

So will you be willing to tell me this time what separates Artis Gilmore from Wilt Chamberlain in terms of skillset?

Has anyone said Wilt wouldn't be able to play today?

I have never seen you saying that Wilt would have "translated today quite well".

Who do you think would be better today then - Artis or Wilt?

Wilt would be 'more skilled' than Artis. More skill doesn't always translate to more impact though. I'd have to think about it. I know Artis wouldn't be making it impossible for the team to function effectively by insisting on living in another city.

This isn't the 'gotcha' you think it is. I suspect I wouldn't have Gilmore in the top 25-30 all-time players either.

[70sFan]

Has anyone said Wilt wouldn't be able to play today?

I have never seen you saying that Wilt would have "translated today quite well".

Who do you think would be better today then - Artis or Wilt?

Wilt would be 'more skilled' than Artis. More skill doesn't always translate to more impact though. I'd have to think about it. I know Artis wouldn't be making it impossible for the team to function effectively by insisting on living in another city.

This isn't the 'gotcha' you think it is. I suspect I wouldn't have Gilmore in the top 25-30 all-time players either.

It's not "gotcha" - I genuinely hope you will provide the comparison and evaluation of these players. These two are my favorites of all-time, I always like talking about them.

So I repeat the question - who do you think would be better today?

[penbeast0]

Thanks, so it looks like ABA Gilmore was better defender. So when he came to NBA he wasn't great defender anymore?

Bulls wanted him closer to the basket and I think that hurt his defensive impact a bit plus it put him gradually into a more passive mindset. I'd say 75 was his peak year and while his first year or two in the NBA were his best, it was a steady slide defensively from that. Offensively, you got less aggression but higher efficiency, his ability to pass out of the post may have been negatively affected too but I'd say his offense improved in the NBA.

[kcktiny]

Awards are often a couple of years behind reality especially for all time greats

A generalization of no pertinence here.

Jabbar's first 2 seasons (1979-80 and 1980-81) of his second decade in the league he received 57 votes from NBA head coaches for the all-defensive team. The only other Cs to receive votes were George Johnson with 8 and Dave Cowens with 7 (Caldwell Jones made one team but as a PF). So NBA coaches made it emphatically clear who they thought the best defensive C in the league was those two seasons.

see fellow Laker Kobe Bryant and his All-D awards

The 12 seasons Bryant made an all-defensive team (all years 1999-00 to 2011-12 except 2004-05) the Lakers were the 4th best defensive team in the league at 102.9 pts/100poss allowed. Only San Antonio, Boston, and Miami were better defensively (27 teams were worse). Kobe alone played 1/7 to 1/6 of that Lakers team's total minutes played (34,633 min). No other Lakers player played even 20,000 minutes over that time. If Bryant wasn't a very good to excellent defender over all that time, just who was playing excellent defense on the Lakers such that they were the 4th best defensive team over those 12 seasons?

I can't say without doing some deep study

Let us know what you come up with.

plus it put him gradually into a more passive mindset

His first 10 seasons in the NBA Gilmore was 3rd among all Cs in minutes played, 1st in defensive rebounds, 3rd in offensive rebounds, 4th in blocks, 4th in points scored, 1st in highest 2pt FG%, 2nd in FTM, 2nd in FTA. Over that entire decade he averaged 35 min/g, 19.0 pts/g, a 60% 2pt FG% (10% higher than the league average C), 11.1 reb/g, 2.1 bs/g. Played all 82 games in 6 of those seasons, an average of 76 games/season over the decade.

Not exactly what you would call passive play.