How many Durant years over Peak K-Malone?

[ShotCreator]

Karl Malone played a better style, was a much better defender at his best (in lieu of a Zaza Pachulia or PJ Tucker, incredibly high motor, incredibly physical, great hands and great box out guy - overall stud positional defender as opposed to vertical which is easier to observe).

Karl Malone was a better raw playmaker in a worse era for offense, and wasn’t a ball pounder or flow killer like KD at times to get his high level offense.

I reject the idea that Durant was a playoff riser or superior playoff performer.

Kevin Durant had multiple disaster series outside of Golden State, before and after his Golden State career.

And when he faced high-level defenses, his habits got worse and his skills cratered. Malone would have worse efficiency against high-level defenses, but he wouldn’t hijack the offense to do it, unlike KD.

I think KD‘s only edge would be on a hypothetical ceiling raising situation like in Golden State. On a team with a traditional level of support like the 13 OKC thunder or the 97 Utah Jazz, Kevin Durant is inferior to Karl Malone to me.

But there’s an argument that even that is pushing it, considering in 2018 and 2019, Kevin Durant again started hijacking offenses.

I think I lean towards zero if we are talking late 90s Karl Malone.

[Owly]

I think the point missed here is that where more points are scored by durability it's only indirectly related to scoring.

It's often a fine line between being stubborn and being stupid.

Let's rephrase the thread from "How many Durant years over Peak K-Malone" to "How many Embiid years over Peak K-Malone".

From the ages of 24-30 Joel Embiid averaged 29.2 pts/g (35.7 pts/40min), Karl Malone averaged just 28.1 pts/g (28.9 pts/40min). Embiid was the better shooter on 2s, 3s, and FTs, per minute Embiid was the better rebounder, better passer, better shot blocker, and was one of the very few that can claim attempted more FTAs per minute than Malone did.

Malone played 3000+ minutes and 80+ games each of those seasons. Embiid averaged just 51 games and only 1673 minutes per season.

How many Embiid seasons are you taking over peak Malone?

Better yet.

Embiid was in the league from the ages of 22-30, scored 34.7 pts/g one season, 33.1 pts/g in another. How many of those seasons you taking over Durant in that same age range? If any, why? If none, why?

I broadly/generally agree that at some point the disparity on the durability/missed games becomes relevant. e.g. That it may be better to have the 'B+' scorer for 82 games than it is to have the 'A' scorer for 55 games [or whatever] is a valid point, imo.

It's also a point which could have been made without being deliberately provocative [the opening line], don't you think?

Put another way, your voice may carry further talking across to people instead of down to them.

Not super important but for context ... that [valid] point ... I would argue doesn't even need to be made in this context ... because it is accepted and baked in to the post.

It's also known and accepted by - I would suggest - all that being rate-good/productive only generates value to the extent that players are available, or else people would think John Stroeder were amongst the greatest playoff players and Tyson Wheeler the greatest RS players. But people make errors or get sloppy and forget to apply standards ... so to the specific post ...

The post earlier explicitly ("Malone was an iron man ...") and implicitly through comparison ("Barkley, who absolutely was less resilient [than Malone] ...") recognizes Malone's availability.

Then, though the quote chain refers to "a career perspective" [post 12 by Joao Saraiva, anonymous-quoted post 13, the chain quoted by me in 15) and this expression is now at single season level ... there is no implication that availability is irrelevant to scoring value. Rather it refers to minutes providing integral context to scoring, this point being exemplified, the unlikeliness of replacing a player with no-player being made explicit and thus the value of raw totals doubted. It is clear that once scoring had been identified, isolated as far as is possible, availability/longevity would come in as a factor ('you could then get to "and my player did it for longer"' ... at a career level). You can't get much if looking at points without looking at minutes. And you can't get information on the value of a general evaluation of scoring (isolated, typically primarily in terms of rate and efficiency - though contexts will apply) if you don't know how much someone is on the court.

[Top10alltime]

I think the point missed here is that where more points are scored by durability it's only indirectly related to scoring.

It's often a fine line between being stubborn and being stupid.

Let's rephrase the thread from "How many Durant years over Peak K-Malone" to "How many Embiid years over Peak K-Malone".

From the ages of 24-30 Joel Embiid averaged 29.2 pts/g (35.7 pts/40min), Karl Malone averaged just 28.1 pts/g (28.9 pts/40min). Embiid was the better shooter on 2s, 3s, and FTs, per minute Embiid was the better rebounder, better passer, better shot blocker, and was one of the very few that can claim attempted more FTAs per minute than Malone did.

Malone played 3000+ minutes and 80+ games each of those seasons. Embiid averaged just 51 games and only 1673 minutes per season.

How many Embiid seasons are you taking over peak Malone?

Better yet.

Embiid was in the league from the ages of 22-30, scored 34.7 pts/g one season, 33.1 pts/g in another. How many of those seasons you taking over Durant in that same age range? If any, why? If none, why?

Embiid peaked higher than both KD and KM, very very easily. KD CLEARS KM, and Embiid CLEARS both. I'll quote myself

Embiid should already be here. It's a crime everyone underrated him, even though he had injuries to add context to the playoffs.....

Embiid should probably have gone #7, in place of Giannis (throw him outside the top 20, he's not versatile at all and his skillset neutralized against elite personnel).

Embiid is an elite scorer everywhere, his timing while shooting the jump shots is more valuable to an offense than extremely volatile tough shot-making, he is an elite shot-creator and can be useful in offensive systems (Like with Harden or Maxey). Unlike most big men, he doesn't have a weakness in face-up game. He is an ATG mid-range scorer, and a great post scorer (great mismatch hunter too). Elite footwork and strength makes him a force there. He is an amazing foul-drawer and punishes defenses for it too. ATG scorer at least.

As a playmaker, he has very good processing actually, and is at least a great playmaker because he has great rim pressure, as a roll man he is providing advantages for his team. As a screener, he's a great one. His passing arsenal is very good, bounce passing, pocket passing, overhead passing, PnR or off of screen, and a great transition playmaker when moving. Amazing decision making. Great playmaker at least.

Now, on the defensive end, he is elite, or maybe fringe ATG at defense. Very big with good mobility, an elite rim protector and as an interior defender overall. Pretty switchable, a good on-ball defender and help defender. Good perimeter defense, and ATG drop defense. Anchors top 5 defenses while on the floor too.


Embiid should clearly have been here by now, but people hate him for some reason. They put guys like Shai (bruh) and Giannis (terrible takes) over him.

Embiid is clearly the pick, and if there's another round without Embiid, I don't know what to say about realGM. Must be a group of anti-Embiid people.


Anyways, after Embiid, we could pick people like KD, CP3, Kobe, or Harden. Nash and Dirk are in contention too.

Unfortunately, I'm not voting here, so I am not interested in actually doing some damage or something like that. Also, people here are usually stubborn and close-minded. Many people are hostile (I'm not directing this at anyone, but these people know who they are).

So, here's that Embiid case. I don't think you could debunk anything about that.

Christ bless you all anyways, God loves you

This is why Embiid peaked higher than both, and had a top 15 peaks of all-time. Thank you

[70sFan]

I think you can argue anything from 0 to 6. I don't agree that Durant is a substantially better player than Malone, so anything after 2019 doesn't make any sense to me.

I'd probably put 2013-14 and 2016-17 ahead, so 4 seasons. 2012 and 2018 are on the edge, can see it being better.

[Top10alltime]

I think you can argue anything from 0 to 6. I don't agree that Durant is a substantially better player than Malone, so anything after 2019 doesn't make any sense to me.

I'd probably put 2013-14 and 2016-17 ahead, so 4 seasons. 2012 and 2018 are on the edge, can see it being better.

Better rapist maybe. If you're talking about KM being better than KD at that I can agree.

Anything else is KD.

[70sFan]

I think you can argue anything from 0 to 6. I don't agree that Durant is a substantially better player than Malone, so anything after 2019 doesn't make any sense to me.

I'd probably put 2013-14 and 2016-17 ahead, so 4 seasons. 2012 and 2018 are on the edge, can see it being better.

Better rapist maybe. If you're talking about KM being better than KD at that I can agree.

Anything else is KD.

Did this post provide anything to the discussion?

[jdzimme3]

malone and kd are similar tier players for their time. Top 5 guys with MVP type seasons. I think it is splitting hairs and can understand an argument for either.

Not sure why embiid is such a big part of the conversation but I will bite. Embiids lack of reliability is glaring even in his "peak" years. When you put him up against malone, who played 80+ games in 17 of 19 seasons, you really see how wide the gap is. Embiids has never played 70 games in a season, even at his peak he is missing 20% of the games. Lack of availability should disqualify him from most of these conversations.

[Top10alltime]

I think you can argue anything from 0 to 6. I don't agree that Durant is a substantially better player than Malone, so anything after 2019 doesn't make any sense to me.

I'd probably put 2013-14 and 2016-17 ahead, so 4 seasons. 2012 and 2018 are on the edge, can see it being better.

Better rapist maybe. If you're talking about KM being better than KD at that I can agree.

Anything else is KD.

Did this post provide anything to the discussion?

Dude, I don't see what's wrong with one or two liner replies tbf. If you think you deserve more, then just say so.

[trex_8063]

Better rapist maybe. If you're talking about KM being better than KD at that I can agree.

Anything else is KD.

Did this post provide anything to the discussion?

Dude, I don't see what's wrong with one or two liner replies tbf. If you think you deserve more, then just say so.

I think everyone deserves more than a glib, sarcastic dismissal, don't you? (to say nothing of the provocative rape derailer)

You could [should] do a lot better on this forum than the steady stream of 'one or two liners' aimed at getting under peoples' skin. And tacking a supposed mollifying platitude [the sincerity of which is transparently non-existent] does not make it cool, either.

'Christ' may 'love you', but the bulk of this forum does not. Your routine is wearing thin.

Do not bother with a reply or PM. Just do better.

[Top10alltime]

Did this post provide anything to the discussion?

Dude, I don't see what's wrong with one or two liner replies tbf. If you think you deserve more, then just say so.

I think everyone deserves more than a glib, sarcastic dismissal, don't you? (to say nothing of the provocative rape derailer)

You could [should] do a lot better on this forum than the steady stream of 'one or two liners' aimed at getting under peoples' skin. And tacking a supposed mollifying platitude [the sincerity of which is transparently non-existent] does not make it cool, either.

Christ may love you, but the bulk of this forum does not. Your routine is wearing thin.

Do not bother with a reply or PM. Just do better.

Whether people like it or not, KM is a rapist, a pedophile, and a fake artist. That's the reality, and people don't like the truth.

There's nothing wrong with 1 or 2 liners. Seriously, does everyone in this forum think they're the world president or something? I'm fine with one liners, there's nothing wrong with them, you don't have to spend your life here.

I don't really care if people love me or not. But please, don't act all like this just to defend someone.

I am not doing anything wrong. You guys just hate the truth. A even MORE disrespectful act is putting Christ in quotations and him loving me in quotations. That's much much worse. But noone cares because the way, the truth, and the life is what people hate.

[Peregrine01]

Karl Malone played a better style, was a much better defender at his best (in lieu of a Zaza Pachulia or PJ Tucker, incredibly high motor, incredibly physical, great hands and great box out guy - overall stud positional defender as opposed to vertical which is easier to observe).

Karl Malone was a better raw playmaker in a worse era for offense, and wasn’t a ball pounder or flow killer like KD at times to get his high level offense.

I reject the idea that Durant was a playoff riser or superior playoff performer.

Kevin Durant had multiple disaster series outside of Golden State, before and after his Golden State career.

And when he faced high-level defenses, his habits got worse and his skills cratered. Malone would have worse efficiency against high-level defenses, but he wouldn’t hijack the offense to do it, unlike KD.

I think KD‘s only edge would be on a hypothetical ceiling raising situation like in Golden State. On a team with a traditional level of support like the 13 OKC thunder or the 97 Utah Jazz, Kevin Durant is inferior to Karl Malone to me.

But there’s an argument that even that is pushing it, considering in 2018 and 2019, Kevin Durant again started hijacking offenses.

I think I lean towards zero if we are talking late 90s Karl Malone.

As a scorer there's a clear gap IMO. But there's not much else that I can think of that KD did better. Is the scoring advantage enough to outweigh everything else that Malone did?

[70sFan]

Better rapist maybe. If you're talking about KM being better than KD at that I can agree.

Anything else is KD.

Did this post provide anything to the discussion?

Dude, I don't see what's wrong with one or two liner replies tbf. If you think you deserve more, then just say so.

I have no problems with one liners when they provide anything on the table. Saying that Durant is better at everything than Malone (which is wrong) and focusing on off-court crimes doesn't provide anything valuable to the discussion.

It's not about me deserving better, I deserve nothing.

[Ancalagon]

I would take 2012, 2017, and 2018 Durant over 1992 Malone.