Cant decide.
I love both of there game.
Glen Davis vs. Sean Williams.
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NetsForce
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I think that because Williams is so raw and has more potential and because prior to the draft Big Baby was billed as the more NBA-ready player, there's just a natural tendency to say:
"Oh Sean Williams is good but he's not as good as Big Baby yet because he's raw."
In all honesty though when you look at the two of them, at least in my opinion, a "raw" Sean Williams is still better than a "polished" Glen Davis.
Some people like to point to Davis' higher PER, but aside from the flaws in the PER statistic, you have to remember that Sean Williams is playing against the opponent's starting frontcourt while Big Baby (generally speaking) is not. I think it's also interesting to note that when Sean was coming off the bench he lead all rookies in PER, most likely because he spent more time playing against the other team's second unit.
I guess to really drive the point home, against the Orlando Magic Sean Williams was tasked with guarding Dwight Howard, Glen Davis never has that pressure on him.
Given how few minutes Big Baby plays and the fact that both Sean and Glen are rookies I also don't like the per 40 minutes argument.
I mean realistically speaking neither one of those players would last 40 minutes on the court, and even if they did they'd both experience fatigue which would cause their actual per 40 minute numbers to differ from their projected ones, the question then is by how much would they differ? You can't really measure a player's fatigue so I don't have an answer for that.
Basically here's the thing, Sean Williams is already an elite shot blocker in the league. Not only that, but he's a very versatile defender in that there have been numerous times where he gets switched off onto a point guard or a wing player but has still managed to stay in front of them / alter their shots.
That's another thing that I think Williams has over Davis, if Davis switches on the pick and roll he's exploitation city, he just doesn't have the lateral quickness to stay in front of his man. As far as man-to-man defense in the post goes, Big Baby does a better job of moving his opponent out of position but Sean isn't a complete liability either. He doesn't have Baby's strength but his shot blocking ability in itself alters how opponent's have to play against him in the post.
Where Sean needs to improve though is in his reckless gambling for steals, contrary to popular belief he doesn't go up and try to block everything, he does however tend to gamble for steals when he's playing against someone in the post. His reasoning is probably that he's quicker than the guy he's defending so maybe he can just poke the ball away, but he has to learn that even if he is quicker than the man he is defending gambling for steals is always a no-no.
Offensively it's hard to judge post players as they're both assisted on over 70% of their shots, Big Baby probably has better touch around the rim (not by much) and Sean is an athletic freak so that allows him to better finish when there's contact but at this point it's a wash and it's really too hard to say anything else about them in that regard...
"Oh Sean Williams is good but he's not as good as Big Baby yet because he's raw."
In all honesty though when you look at the two of them, at least in my opinion, a "raw" Sean Williams is still better than a "polished" Glen Davis.
Some people like to point to Davis' higher PER, but aside from the flaws in the PER statistic, you have to remember that Sean Williams is playing against the opponent's starting frontcourt while Big Baby (generally speaking) is not. I think it's also interesting to note that when Sean was coming off the bench he lead all rookies in PER, most likely because he spent more time playing against the other team's second unit.
I guess to really drive the point home, against the Orlando Magic Sean Williams was tasked with guarding Dwight Howard, Glen Davis never has that pressure on him.
Given how few minutes Big Baby plays and the fact that both Sean and Glen are rookies I also don't like the per 40 minutes argument.
I mean realistically speaking neither one of those players would last 40 minutes on the court, and even if they did they'd both experience fatigue which would cause their actual per 40 minute numbers to differ from their projected ones, the question then is by how much would they differ? You can't really measure a player's fatigue so I don't have an answer for that.
Basically here's the thing, Sean Williams is already an elite shot blocker in the league. Not only that, but he's a very versatile defender in that there have been numerous times where he gets switched off onto a point guard or a wing player but has still managed to stay in front of them / alter their shots.
That's another thing that I think Williams has over Davis, if Davis switches on the pick and roll he's exploitation city, he just doesn't have the lateral quickness to stay in front of his man. As far as man-to-man defense in the post goes, Big Baby does a better job of moving his opponent out of position but Sean isn't a complete liability either. He doesn't have Baby's strength but his shot blocking ability in itself alters how opponent's have to play against him in the post.
Where Sean needs to improve though is in his reckless gambling for steals, contrary to popular belief he doesn't go up and try to block everything, he does however tend to gamble for steals when he's playing against someone in the post. His reasoning is probably that he's quicker than the guy he's defending so maybe he can just poke the ball away, but he has to learn that even if he is quicker than the man he is defending gambling for steals is always a no-no.
Offensively it's hard to judge post players as they're both assisted on over 70% of their shots, Big Baby probably has better touch around the rim (not by much) and Sean is an athletic freak so that allows him to better finish when there's contact but at this point it's a wash and it's really too hard to say anything else about them in that regard...
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Datruth345
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Some people like to point to Davis' higher PER, but aside from the flaws in the PER statistic, you have to remember that Sean Williams is playing against the opponent's starting frontcourt while Big Baby (generally speaking) is not.
this is flase (generally speaking)
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UGA Hayes
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Its too early to say anything with conviction however in the long run b/t similarly productive players statswise I'll take the one with the higher bball IQ.
Also for what its worth I would argue against Willliams being hands down the better defender. Davis guards the post well and is surprising agile when it comes to rotation and has even shown, as hard as it is to believe, some good skills as weak side shot blocker. Williams raw shot blocking prowess hides low bball defensive IQ to ssome extent but at some point his Stromile Swift, Sammy Dalembert-esque mistakes is hard for the team to overcome.
Also for what its worth I would argue against Willliams being hands down the better defender. Davis guards the post well and is surprising agile when it comes to rotation and has even shown, as hard as it is to believe, some good skills as weak side shot blocker. Williams raw shot blocking prowess hides low bball defensive IQ to ssome extent but at some point his Stromile Swift, Sammy Dalembert-esque mistakes is hard for the team to overcome.
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Datruth345
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....because we all know both teams sub out 5 at a time
i don't know who he is matched up with everygame off the top of my head
but i do know that, yes, he does guard starting frontcourt players
Davis has taken both zydrunas and rasheed out of the game while he was guarding them
i don't know who he is matched up with everygame off the top of my head
but i do know that, yes, he does guard starting frontcourt players
Davis has taken both zydrunas and rasheed out of the game while he was guarding them
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NetsForce
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UGA Hayes wrote:Also for what its worth I would argue against Willliams being hands down the better defender. Davis guards the post well and is surprising agile when it comes to rotation and has even shown, as hard as it is to believe, some good skills as weak side shot blocker. Williams raw shot blocking prowess hides low bball defensive IQ to ssome extent but at some point his Stromile Swift, Sammy Dalembert-esque mistakes is hard for the team to overcome.
I go to college in the Philly area so have had to watch Dalembert play for quite some time now, please never compare Sean Williams' basketball IQ to Dalemberts' again. As a shot blocker Williams has one of the better basketball IQ's in the league, at least among young players, the majority of shots he blocks stay in bounds. Like I said before it's not like he's trying to block everything, going for steals when he shouldn't be is a problem, but that's a problem a lot of rookies face. It's not like Williams doesn't close out on perimeter shooters, or is getting beat by his man for easy layups time and time again.
That's just my opinion though, I'm sure you have some reason for saying he has low basketball IQ, other than the fact that he blocks a lot of shots
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UGA Hayes
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To be fair Williams can improve defensive IQ, and if he does he will skyrocket as a defender. Really almost all rookies have low defensive IQ coming into the league, its the level of improvement that they make that I use to assess Defensive IQ. Mostly, I'm talking about defensive rotations which I really haven't seen great improvement from Williams, not on the level that Glen Davis has made.
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adjacent2bench
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EvadedHavoc
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yunggunz wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
So this thread is because of 1 game?
Pretty Much.
Big Baby got hyped up cause he scored like 15 points or so in the 4th quarter to pretty much put away the Pistons and grab the Celts the W.
I know it was just one game but it wasnt the first game where he displayed his scoring under the basket prowess.
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GYBE
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NetsForce wrote:Offensively it's hard to judge post players as they're both assisted on over 70% of their shots, Big Baby probably has better touch around the rim (not by much) and Sean is an athletic freak so that allows him to better finish when there's contact but at this point it's a wash and it's really too hard to say anything else about them in that regard...
This is the part I have a big problem with. Davis has a fairly large advantage in terms of offense. He has a better mid-range game and a better touch around the basket. This was evident back in college and neither player has really changed their game much.
Having said that, as a C's fan, I think Williams will have the better career. But I'd rather have Davis since we're already dominant defensively and need scoring off the bench.
