Team Riley vs Team Jackson

[OldSchoolNoBull]

Team "Riley"(best of Showtime Lakers/90s Knicks/late 90s Heat/00s Heat) vs Team "Jackson"(best of 90s Bulls/00-03 Lakers/05-08 Lakers)

A couple of notes:

1.I decided not to include Shaq on Riley's roster because Shaq was already declined in his first two years in Miami and in the last two has been a shadow of himself, not to mention Riley's already got Kareem, Ewing, and Mourning at the 5.

2.I started Pippen at the 1 on Jackson's roster, because for all intents and purposes he was the Bulls' PG during the championships...he was the playmaker, and Jackson's PGs have otherwise been lackluster. Also, it gives a starting opportunity to either Rice or Odom.

3.I am not including Malone or Payton on Jackson's team because they were only there for one year and they were washed up. If I Include them, I'd also have to include Robert Parish just because he was the 13th man on the '97 Bulls in his last year in the NBA.

Team "Riley":

Abdul-Jabbar/Ewing/Mourning
Oakley/Haslem/A.C. Green
Worthy/Mashburn/E.Jones
Wade/Starks/Scott
Magic/T.Hardaway/D.Harper

Team "Jackson":

O'Neal/Grant(Bulls' years)/Bynum
Rodman/Kukoc/Horry
Rice/Odom/Fox
Jordan/Kobe/Armstrong
Pippen/R.Harper/Fisher

Overall, Riley's squad appears to have more firepower after the starting lineups, as Kobe and Odom are the only big offensive threats off Jackson's bench, but all of Jackson's title squads made optimal use of all those roleplayers in the triangle offense, and MJ/Pippen/Shaq/Kobe routinely made those roleplayers look like twice, sometimes even three times the players they were. Plus, don't underestimate Kukoc and Grant's ability to score off the bench as long as the others are creating for them. Starks/Scott/Jones looks better on paper than Kukoc/Fox/Fisher, but Jackson's system has done some amazing things for guys that don't look great on paper. And like I said, don't underestimate Kukoc(as well as Fisher)'s ability to score in bunches if given the right opportunities.

The battle on the boards will be epic. Riley's got the obvious size advantage with Kareem/Ewing/Mourning, but Shaq in his prime had no problem ripping 13+ down a night either. Grant was a solid rebounder in his early-mid 90s prime, and Rodman is often considered the greatest rebounder in the history of the game, so he should have no problem mixing it up with Oakley(that would be a dirty matchup).

Riley's squad has the battle of the floor generals decidedly won with Magic and Tim Hardaway at the helm. Pippen was a very good playmaker for the Bulls but Magic is very arguably the greatest PG of all time and Tim was probably top 10 pg of his generation.

However, as great as Riley's advantage at the PG position is, it is cancelled out by Jackson's advantage at the 2. I still consider MJ and even Kobe to be much better players than Wade, not to mention they're both taller(especially Kobe) and would both lock down on him(especially MJ). Worthy is HOF, but even him and Wade together, they're not > MJ+Kobe. Also on the wings, Odom vs Mashburn will be a key bench matchup, but I give the edge to Mashburn for being a more dynamic offensive player and having a little more range on his shot, and for being a little bit more intense than Odom, imo.

I think this would be a very close game. Each team has obvious advantages and disadvantages. Riley is stacked at center and point guard and his whole team has more depth, but Jackson has MJ, Shaq, Pippen, and Kobe, and I'm having a very hard time betting against that.

If it's one game, I give the nod to Jackson's squad. If it's a 7 game series...I still give the nod to Jackson's squad IF they can get the job done in 4, MAYBE 5 games. If it goes 6 or 7, I give Riley's squad the nod simply because of their depth.

What do you think?

[Phil Jackson]

Team Phil Jackson because they have Phil Jackson who is a better coach and Kobe Bryant who is the best player overall.

[hermes]

team jackson
they have jordan pippen and kobe
and no one is stopping shaq down low

[jeff1624]

Team Phil Jackson because they have Phil Jackson who is a better coach and Kobe Bryant who is the best player overall.

Probably Team Jackson... The Shaq, Kobe, Pippen and Jordan foursome scares the hell out of me..

[BBallFreak]

:rofl:

Probably Team Jackson... The Shaq, Kobe, Pippen and Jordan foursome scares the hell out of me..

Thank you for the right answer.

[Myth_Breaker]

Team "Riley"(best of Showtime Lakers/90s Knicks/late 90s Heat/00s Heat) vs Team "Jackson"(best of 90s Bulls/00-03 Lakers/05-08 Lakers)

A couple of notes:

1.I decided not to include Shaq on Riley's roster because Shaq was already declined in his first two years in Miami and in the last two has been a shadow of himself, not to mention Riley's already got Kareem, Ewing, and Mourning at the 5.

2.I started Pippen at the 1 on Jackson's roster, because for all intents and purposes he was the Bulls' PG during the championships...he was the playmaker, and Jackson's PGs have otherwise been lackluster. Also, it gives a starting opportunity to either Rice or Odom.

3.I am not including Malone or Payton on Jackson's team because they were only there for one year and they were washed up. If I Include them, I'd also have to include Robert Parish just because he was the 13th man on the '97 Bulls in his last year in the NBA.

Team "Riley":

Abdul-Jabbar/Ewing/Mourning
Oakley/Haslem/A.C. Green
Worthy/Mashburn/E.Jones
Wade/Starks/Scott
Magic/T.Hardaway/D.Harper

Team "Jackson":

O'Neal/Grant(Bulls' years)/Bynum
Rodman/Kukoc/Horry
Rice/Odom/Fox
Jordan/Kobe/Armstrong
Pippen/R.Harper/Fisher

Overall, Riley's squad appears to have more firepower after the starting lineups, as Kobe and Odom are the only big offensive threats off Jackson's bench, but all of Jackson's title squads made optimal use of all those roleplayers in the triangle offense, and MJ/Pippen/Shaq/Kobe routinely made those roleplayers look like twice, sometimes even three times the players they were. Plus, don't underestimate Kukoc and Grant's ability to score off the bench as long as the others are creating for them. Starks/Scott/Jones looks better on paper than Kukoc/Fox/Fisher, but Jackson's system has done some amazing things for guys that don't look great on paper. And like I said, don't underestimate Kukoc(as well as Fisher)'s ability to score in bunches if given the right opportunities.

The battle on the boards will be epic. Riley's got the obvious size advantage with Kareem/Ewing/Mourning, but Shaq in his prime had no problem ripping 13+ down a night either. Grant was a solid rebounder in his early-mid 90s prime, and Rodman is often considered the greatest rebounder in the history of the game, so he should have no problem mixing it up with Oakley(that would be a dirty matchup).

Riley's squad has the battle of the floor generals decidedly won with Magic and Tim Hardaway at the helm. Pippen was a very good playmaker for the Bulls but Magic is very arguably the greatest PG of all time and Tim was probably top 10 pg of his generation.

However, as great as Riley's advantage at the PG position is, it is cancelled out by Jackson's advantage at the 2. I still consider MJ and even Kobe to be much better players than Wade, not to mention they're both taller(especially Kobe) and would both lock down on him(especially MJ). Worthy is HOF, but even him and Wade together, they're not > MJ+Kobe. Also on the wings, Odom vs Mashburn will be a key bench matchup, but I give the edge to Mashburn for being a more dynamic offensive player and having a little more range on his shot, and for being a little bit more intense than Odom, imo.

I think this would be a very close game. Each team has obvious advantages and disadvantages. Riley is stacked at center and point guard and his whole team has more depth, but Jackson has MJ, Shaq, Pippen, and Kobe, and I'm having a very hard time betting against that.

If it's one game, I give the nod to Jackson's squad. If it's a 7 game series...I still give the nod to Jackson's squad IF they can get the job done in 4, MAYBE 5 games. If it goes 6 or 7, I give Riley's squad the nod simply because of their depth.

What do you think?

I make such comparisons quite often, and I also did this one (but the full version is Team Riley - Team Jackson - Team Auerbach - Team Hannum: THESE are 4 competitive squads - maybe I'll post it when I have more time). No offense, but IMHO you've made some obvious mistakes/errors (especially surprising in case of someone with proud nick OldSchool ):

- A.C. Green was better (and bigger) than Haslem; I'd also take PJ Brown and Mason over Haslem,
- amazingly, you left completely out of rotation DPOY in Michael Cooper, who was both clearly better and far more clutch than EJ,
- Byron was better and more talented than Starks (even if less scrappy in defense),
- and the most important one: I'd think every sane person would start MJ and Kobe together instead of giving starting spot to freakin' Rice or Odom!
- also: at 2 spot, there should be E. Jones (or Kerr, if you want 3P shooting specialist) over Armstrong, who's small even for a point guard,
- wouldn't it be wiser to start Zo at PF instead of Oak? You might give then one of backup C spots to PJ Brown.
- I don't think it's fair to exclude players who played for the given coach even for a single season, though of course we should take into account their level of play from this very season. Of course, it concerns even more Shaq, who played for Riles for 2 seasons on very high level (not to mention next seasons on lower level) and definitely should be included, though in lesser version, also in Riley's team. That he was better playing for Jax? So what - Tim Hardaway was better playing in Golden State (before injuries), Rodman in Detroit... you get the drift?

But I'm stopping here since I'm moving from the issue of glaring errors to the issue of personal judgments, which are always disputable.

[Flash is the Future]

Yeah. Prime Zo could've played PF considering the fact that he was a beast running the floor and actually had a jumper back then. But, anyone think Ewing could play PF if he was matched up against Rodman on defense?

PG: Magic Johnson/Tim Hardaway/Derek Harper
SG: Dwyane Wade/John Starks/Byron Scott
SF: James Worthy/Jamal Mashburn/Eddie Jones
PF: Patrick Ewing/Charles Oakley/AC Green
C: Kareem Abdul-Jabbar/Alonzo Mourning/PJ Brown

It's difficult to pick players though. Those Showtime Lakers teams were loaded.

[Patterns]

O'Neal/Grant(Bulls' years)/Bynum
Rodman/Kukoc/Horry
Rice/Odom/Fox
Jordan/Kobe/Armstrong
Pippen/R.Harper/Fisher

Wow. Do you even know how to make an effective line up?

Jordan would move to the SF position and Kobe would start at SG. There is no way that Rice would start over Kobe even if he is bigger.

Jackson's team would win easily.

Kobe, Jordan, Pippen would completely shut down the perimeter and Rodman and Shaq will beat whoever drives inside.

[WadeKnicks2010]

Jackson's team would win. this is not even close. Jackson has had way more talent on his teams over his career.

[JordansBulls]

Team "Riley"(best of Showtime Lakers/90s Knicks/late 90s Heat/00s Heat) vs Team "Jackson"(best of 90s Bulls/00-03 Lakers/05-08 Lakers)

A couple of notes:

1.I decided not to include Shaq on Riley's roster because Shaq was already declined in his first two years in Miami and in the last two has been a shadow of himself, not to mention Riley's already got Kareem, Ewing, and Mourning at the 5.

2.I started Pippen at the 1 on Jackson's roster, because for all intents and purposes he was the Bulls' PG during the championships...he was the playmaker, and Jackson's PGs have otherwise been lackluster. Also, it gives a starting opportunity to either Rice or Odom.

3.I am not including Malone or Payton on Jackson's team because they were only there for one year and they were washed up. If I Include them, I'd also have to include Robert Parish just because he was the 13th man on the '97 Bulls in his last year in the NBA.

Team "Riley":

Abdul-Jabbar/Ewing/Mourning
Oakley/Haslem/A.C. Green
Worthy/Mashburn/E.Jones
Wade/Starks/Scott
Magic/T.Hardaway/D.Harper

Team "Jackson":

O'Neal/Grant(Bulls' years)/Bynum
Rodman/Kukoc/Horry
Rice/Odom/Fox
Jordan/Kobe/Armstrong
Pippen/R.Harper/Fisher

Overall, Riley's squad appears to have more firepower after the starting lineups, as Kobe and Odom are the only big offensive threats off Jackson's bench, but all of Jackson's title squads made optimal use of all those roleplayers in the triangle offense, and MJ/Pippen/Shaq/Kobe routinely made those roleplayers look like twice, sometimes even three times the players they were. Plus, don't underestimate Kukoc and Grant's ability to score off the bench as long as the others are creating for them. Starks/Scott/Jones looks better on paper than Kukoc/Fox/Fisher, but Jackson's system has done some amazing things for guys that don't look great on paper. And like I said, don't underestimate Kukoc(as well as Fisher)'s ability to score in bunches if given the right opportunities.

The battle on the boards will be epic. Riley's got the obvious size advantage with Kareem/Ewing/Mourning, but Shaq in his prime had no problem ripping 13+ down a night either. Grant was a solid rebounder in his early-mid 90s prime, and Rodman is often considered the greatest rebounder in the history of the game, so he should have no problem mixing it up with Oakley(that would be a dirty matchup).

Riley's squad has the battle of the floor generals decidedly won with Magic and Tim Hardaway at the helm. Pippen was a very good playmaker for the Bulls but Magic is very arguably the greatest PG of all time and Tim was probably top 10 pg of his generation.

However, as great as Riley's advantage at the PG position is, it is cancelled out by Jackson's advantage at the 2. I still consider MJ and even Kobe to be much better players than Wade, not to mention they're both taller(especially Kobe) and would both lock down on him(especially MJ). Worthy is HOF, but even him and Wade together, they're not > MJ+Kobe. Also on the wings, Odom vs Mashburn will be a key bench matchup, but I give the edge to Mashburn for being a more dynamic offensive player and having a little more range on his shot, and for being a little bit more intense than Odom, imo.

I think this would be a very close game. Each team has obvious advantages and disadvantages. Riley is stacked at center and point guard and his whole team has more depth, but Jackson has MJ, Shaq, Pippen, and Kobe, and I'm having a very hard time betting against that.

If it's one game, I give the nod to Jackson's squad. If it's a 7 game series...I still give the nod to Jackson's squad IF they can get the job done in 4, MAYBE 5 games. If it goes 6 or 7, I give Riley's squad the nod simply because of their depth.

What do you think?

In order for Team Riley to have a chance, Kareem needs to be in his prime and Alonzo needs to start at PF. Otherwise Team Jackson would kill. Pippen, MJ, Kobe, Rodman and Shaq as your starting 5. Yikes!!!

[BBallFreak]

Where is Horace Grant on team Jackson?

Oh and BTW Patterns, I don't know that I'd say anyone could completely shut down Magic, Hardaway, Wade, and Worthy at their best. That is too talented a group to just be stopped.

[OldSchoolNoBull]

Where is Horace Grant on team Jackson?

Oh and BTW Patterns, I don't know that I'd say anyone could completely shut down Magic, Hardaway, Wade, and Worthy at their best. That is too talented a group to just be stopped.

Grant is there - he's Shaq's first backup.

[Gerald3Wallace]

pg-pippen
sg-kobe
sf-jordan
pf-rodman
c-shaq

aint nobody stopping that

[eyejayem]

Phil's team easy.

[MagicFan3]

Team Jackson, assuming Kobe starts rather than Rice.

[Flash is the Future]

That team wouldn't have enough basketballs to go around though IMO. Shaq/Penny clashed. Shaq/Kobe clashed. Think Shaq would clash if he had to share with MJ/Pip in addition to Kobe?

[ITK9]

Team Phil Jackson because they have Phil Jackson who is a better coach and Kobe Bryant who is the best player overall.

..and he should be in the starting line-up instead of Michael Jordan...