Prime Vlade vs. Prime Mutombo.

[NetsForce]

In their primes who was the better player Vlade Divac or Dikembe Mutombo?

[tsherkin]

I'd take Mutombo.

Vlade was a brilliant passer and a solid player in other regards but Mutombo was a major defensive force and a top-flight rebounder without being a total liability either on offense or particularly at the line.

I do want to stress how awesome a passer Divac was, though, and how he was nicely versatile in that he was both a high- and low-post player. Very nice, but Mutombo's impact was, IMO, superior.

For example, I think the Lakers would have been a lot better off with Deke than with Vlade, and likewise the Kings.

[KF10]

I'd take Mutombo.

Vlade was a brilliant passer and a solid player in other regards but Mutombo was a major defensive force and a top-flight rebounder without being a total liability either on offense or particularly at the line.

I do want to stress how awesome a passer Divac was, though, and how he was nicely versatile in that he was both a high- and low-post player. Very nice, but Mutombo's impact was, IMO, superior.

For example, I think the Lakers would have been a lot better off with Deke than with Vlade, and likewise the Kings.

Are you sure about that? Vlade, to me, was the IMPORTANT piece that made the Princeton Offense to run beautifully IMO... Vlade is arguably the best passing big in the history of the NBA...

If we had Mutombo instead of Vlade, we will be a a traditionally a halfcourt team and we had less offense opportunities (Even though we had Webber in the high post to pass the cutters as well) and our offense will not run to its optimal form IMO. Regardless, with the addition of Mutombo we might have several championship banners in Arco....

[tsherkin]

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Are you sure about that? Vlade, to me, was the IMPORTANT piece that made the Princeton Offense to run beautifully IMO... Vlade is arguably the best passing big in the history of the NBA...

If we had Mutombo instead of Vlade, we will be a a traditionally a halfcourt team and we had less offense opportunities (Even though we had Webber in the high post to pass the cutters as well) and our offense will not run to its optimal form IMO. Regardless, with the addition of Mutombo we might have several championship banners in Arco....

I think the rebounding and defense he'd have provided would have vastly outweighed the superior offense Vlade provided. Vlade was hugely effective as an offensive piece, but with a guy who annually threatened to lead the league in rebounding and win the DPOY, I think the Kings would have recovered on D whatever they lost on O and then some and yes, I am inclined to believe they'd have at least one title.

[KF10]

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I think the rebounding and defense he'd have provided would have vastly outweighed the superior offense Vlade provided. Vlade was hugely effective as an offensive piece, but with a guy who annually threatened to lead the league in rebounding and win the DPOY, I think the Kings would have recovered on D whatever they lost on O and then some and yes, I am inclined to believe they'd have at least one title.

Yeah, I agree. But keep in mind that were #1 or #2 in assists for consecutive years thanks to Vlade's role in the Princeton Offense.... But I guess a player like Mutombo would recover any O that is lost IMO...

[tsherkin]

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Yeah, I agree. But keep in mind that were #1 or #2 in assists for consecutive years thanks to Vlade's role in the Princeton Offense.... But I guess a player like Mutombo would recover any O that is lost IMO...

As I said, I recognize Vlade's value and skill but the Kings' problem was never their offense, it was always their D and rebounding and Mutombo was of course the perfect player to fix those problems even as the offense was scaled down a little. And remember that Mutombo was a pretty good offensive rebounder too, so he'd be bringing second-chance opportunities to a team full of shooters.

[KF10]

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As I said, I recognize Vlade's value and skill but the Kings' problem was never their offense, it was always their D and rebounding and Mutombo was of course the perfect player to fix those problems even as the offense was scaled down a little. And remember that Mutombo was a pretty good offensive rebounder too, so he'd be bringing second-chance opportunities to a team full of shooters.

Great point. Totally forgot about his ability on the offensive boards... As I think about it; yeah he could be a better fit for the Kings...

[TNBT]

I agree with the general opinion in this thread. Vlade was a great offensive big man in more ways than just providing low-post offense. He could step to the high post and he could pass extremely well for a big man.

Dikembe, however, was arguably the greatest shot blocker and defensive presence in the last 20 years. You could always count on him to lead the league in blocks and to be pretty close to the top in rebounds. As has been said, he also wasn't completely useless on the offensive end either.

If we're talking about the Kings (which is where this conversation appears to have headed), I agree that they most likely would have been a more dangerous team with Dikembe than with Vlade. Sure the offense may have lost a little of its fluency, but there was still Webber there to play the low/high post and he was a quite effective passer as well. So even though the offense loses a part, it gains a different part in Dikembe. With Webber at the high post and guys like Peja, Christie and Bibby shooting from outside, Dikembe would have collected many offensive boards and contributed a lot of second-chance points. So as has been pointed out already, the offense would have lost a passer/scorer, but gained an offensive rebounder/scorer. If you ask me, I'd say that each have their strengths on the offensive end, and the Kings offense would have been successful with either, although it would be slightly different depending on which center they had.

So for me, on the offensive end of the floor, they are both pretty well equal in terms of how effective the Kings offense would have run. On the defensive end, well, it's pretty much an obvious advantage to Dikembe. So to sum this long, rambling post up, I think Dikembe would have made the Kings a better team.

As for in other situations, however, Vlade may have been more beneficial to have.

[tsherkin]

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Great point. Totally forgot about his ability on the offensive boards... As I think about it; yeah he could be a better fit for the Kings...

Yep, he's at 3.2 orpg on his career and that includes 6 seasons from and including the age of 36 onward. He had three seasons at 4.0+ orpg and three others at 3.7+, so yeah, he was definitely a significant force on the glass at that end. Topped out at 4.5 orpg as a rookie, actually, but posted 4.1 orpg as late as 00-01 when he helped the Sixers to the Finals.

[KF10]

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Yep, he's at 3.2 orpg on his career and that includes 6 seasons from and including the age of 36 onward. He had three seasons at 4.0+ orpg and three others at 3.7+, so yeah, he was definitely a significant force on the glass at that end. Topped out at 4.5 orpg as a rookie, actually, but posted 4.1 orpg as late as 00-01 when he helped the Sixers to the Finals.

Hehe, yeah... But I still cant believe that I totally forgot about the offensive boards... My mistake...

[TNBT]

OK, we've all looked at the Kings situation now and agreed that Dikembe would have been a better option. Now I challenge someone to come up with a team or a situation in which Vlade would be more valuable. If I wasn't too tired to do it myself, I'd try and come up with some type of situation in which Vlade would fit well.

[KF10]

OK, we've all looked at the Kings situation now and agreed that Dikembe would have been a better option. Now I challenge someone to come up with a team or a situation in which Vlade would be more valuable. If I wasn't too tired to do it myself, I'd try and come up with some type of situation in which Vlade would fit well.

Hmm, Vlade thrives when a team that executes the offense VERY well... So, find a team that executes well on the offensive end...

[TNBT]

I could have made that point. I want you to think, man. THINK!

[KF10]

I could have made that point. I want you to think, man. THINK!

Eh, Im tired of to think...

Hmm, IMO Vlade would make the Jordan's Bulls even BETTER if Vlade was their starting center.

[tsherkin]

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Eh, Im tired of to think...

Hmm, IMO Vlade would make the Jordan's Bulls even BETTER if Vlade was their starting center.

My MOM could have made those teams better by being their starting center...

C'mon man, the Bulls had some pretty weak centers for the most part. IMO, the best center they had during the title years was Bill Cartwright and even wasn't all that good as a starter. And to be frank, I don't think Vlade would've been better there than Deke, since I think Deke's interior D and rebounding would have been more valuable because of the relatively minor role required of the centers on offense in that system with MJ and Scottie... especially at the paces at which they played during the second three-peat.

And this is only MORE true if you extend the timeframe to prior to the first three-peat.

[Erebus Tunafish]

I'd say Deke by quite a long shot, but Vlade was perfect for the Kings methinks... or at least the Kings used him perfectly.

[TNBT]

I'd say Deke by quite a long shot, but Vlade was perfect for the Kings methinks... or at least the Kings used him perfectly.

He was perfect for the offense they ran, but there's sometimes more than one perfect solution.

[hermes]

mutumbo