Rudy Gay vs Brandon Roy

[xAIRNESSx]

[quote="Optimism Prime"][/quote]

I left the rest out there, because I hadn't made up my mind. Some posters like to make up stats before actually checking them, so i just wanted to get that out of the way and hear the rest of the arguments. That's why I said "statistically speaking".

[J~Rush]

Height-speaking I take Gay

[candy for lunch]

I think Roy is on his way to being in the Steve Francis, Wally World, Glen Robinson etc etc mold where he comes in and plays well early in his career, gets a ton of respect and all sorts of hype for the future....before plateauing and/or regressing. Then, years down the road, people look back and scratch their heads saying "now.....why did we talk that way about him again......?"

Do you actually know anything about Roy? I mean seriously, this is probably the most delusional description of him I've ever read.

[Harry Palmer]

-You're only referencing one thing: stats. It'd be the same as me saying "Roy is better than Gay in intangibles" and leaving it at that.

Not exactly.

By the very definition of the word, intangibles aren't...tangible. They can't really be seen, they have to be perceived or assumed. Hence, they are largely a matter of personal opinion, which is open to all kinds of persuasions contrary to reality.

That is why we came up with stats...incomplete though they are, they are an effort to track and enumerate that which CAN be seen. That which we KNOW has an effect on the game.

So while your pointing out that Roy might be better than Gay in 'intangibles' might be a legit argument, it isn't at all 'the same' as pointing out Gay is statistically superior. And there is also the dubious supposition that the 'intangible' aspect of a player's abilities is of equal impact on the games he plays in with that which we can record, statistically.

Now, as to the substance of the intangible argument itself, I would assume a lot of that is based on team performance, and the assumption in play is the same one that plagued MJ for his early career: a great player isn't on a bad team, if he has the intangibles.

Now I suppose that might have been true...possibly MJ's acquisition of intangibles just happened to coincide with his getting talent around him...but it obviously poses some problems. It might, just might, be more likely that he had the intangibles all along, but his teams failed because of other factors, and his shortcomings in that regard were just a matter of faulty perceptions of others.

In terms of what kinds of things go into 'intangibles' that do border some on the tangible, clutch play would usually be in that group, and fortunately there is now a record of how players perform under one definition of 'clutch' time.

http://82games.com/

And according to same, Roy's clutch time efg% is a respectable .493, while Gay's is an astonishing .644.

Again, hardly a complete argument, but does shed some light into the darkness of perceived intangibles.

As for my own opinion, I think Roy is great...much, much better than I thought he would be, although I did pick him as someone who would emerge into his prime earliest among that draft pick, like most people did.

But when you consider how close they are now, how arguable, within the 'tangibles', Gay is even better, and then when you add to that the fact that when he was Gay's current age, Roy was playing at Marquette, if offered either for X, I'd take Gay.

[WesWesley]

But when you consider how close they are now, how arguable, within the 'tangibles', Gay is even better, and then when you add to that the fact that when he was Gay's current age, Roy was playing at Marquette, if offered either for X, I'd take Gay.

He was a huskie.

Whoops, hit edit instead of quote...apologies, dunno how to do the waving finger thing.

[Nothingface]

Roy

[Harry Palmer]

-= original quote snipped =-



He was a huskie.

Whoops, hit edit instead of quote...apologies, dunno how to do the waving finger thing.

Yeah, sorry, my bad...meant to write UW, but that Wade/Rivers clip played while I was typing.

[WesWesley]

-= original quote snipped =-



Yeah, sorry, my bad...meant to write UW, but that Wade/Rivers clip played while I was typing.

haha, normally i wouldn't correct that minor error, but you're a global mod, and i expect nothing but perfection.

[Fitz303]

I think Roy is on his way to being in the Steve Francis, Wally World, Glen Robinson etc etc mold where he comes in and plays well early in his career, gets a ton of respect and all sorts of hype for the future....before plateauing and/or regressing. Then, years down the road, people look back and scratch their heads saying "now.....why did we talk that way about him again......?"

I think he's a very solid guy. A guy that could average 20ppg for several years running.....but he isn't an elite player, he isn't an All-Star, and he certainly won't EVER be a top 5 player in league (lmao). I think its close between him and Gay, but I'll take Rudy right now and for the future. Gay has been a better, more efficient scorer, a better shooter, better defensively and more explosive overall. Roy's big edge comes from the fact that he has played some PG and is a pretty good passer. Still, Gay slightly wins overall right now. As the years pass, the gap will grow exponentially.

In truth, the only reason Roy has gotten as much pub as he has is because of the 6 week hot streak his team went on. Otherwise, he's been a very solid player for losing team with a lot of talent around him. Pretty similar to Gay, really.

As far as your first comment goes. Roy is one of the most humble, grounded, and hard working guys in the NBA. I HIGHLY doubt that he plateaus off and becomes essentially a nobody here in the future.

Your second comments are just awful. How Gay is a better and more efficient scorer is beyond me. He averages 0.5 PPG more than Roy, on 1% better FG%. He shoots .25 more shots per game than Roy. That looks just about identical. Better defensively?? Now I think you just havent watched Roy play. Roy is probably the best defender on the Blazers. More explosive?? You either really dont watch him, or youre just enamored with dunks. Roy is a very explosive player but he does it under control and doesnt throw down huge dunks for the most part.

Hes a smooth player and that also contributes to one of the biggest points in his game that really separates him from Gay. 6 asts/2asts. 1.9TO/2.3TO. Gay doesnt have a single asists to his turnovers. Thats a pretty big deal Brandon Roy takes care of the ball and gets his teammates easy buckets because hes a more under control player (not saying Rudy is erratic) and better passer. Couple that with the fact that offensively theyre about the same, I give it to Roy. I am a huge Gay fan and think he'll be a star in this league right next to Roy in the future, and hes not too far off, but its Roy right now

[sabi]

I think Roy is on his way to being in the Steve Francis, Wally World, Glen Robinson etc etc mold where he comes in and plays well early in his career, gets a ton of respect and all sorts of hype for the future....before plateauing and/or regressing. Then, years down the road, people look back and scratch their heads saying "now.....why did we talk that way about him again......?"

I think he's a very solid guy. A guy that could average 20ppg for several years running.....but he isn't an elite player, he isn't an All-Star, and he certainly won't EVER be a top 5 player in league (lmao). I think its close between him and Gay, but I'll take Rudy right now and for the future. Gay has been a better, more efficient scorer, a better shooter, better defensively and more explosive overall. Roy's big edge comes from the fact that he has played some PG and is a pretty good passer. Still, Gay slightly wins overall right now. As the years pass, the gap will grow exponentially.

In truth, the only reason Roy has gotten as much pub as he has is because of the 6 week hot streak his team went on. Otherwise, he's been a very solid player for losing team with a lot of talent around him. Pretty similar to Gay, really.

fact is that if roy has gotten pub it's because he has earned it. Since he came into the League everyone said he was average at everything but would not excel anything. He was labeled that way before he even played a game in the League, but he has been able to distance himself from that. Turns out he's above average at everything and has many intangibles and an uncanny ability to create for others. once he gets some help to open up the floor you'll see him improve even more. You sir, will eat your own words.

[asindc]

Roy, definitely.

[TAI8]

Brandon Roy easily.