Patrick Ewing vs Chris Bosh

[a-rod]

[quote="tsherkin"][/quote]
I agree....

[Harry Palmer]

First off, some of you sound like we're comparing prime Shaq to DJ Mbenga here, which is hardly the case.
Also, although Bosh isn't a HOF/Ewing type yet, we don't know his potential and we can't just write him off like that. Let's wait till he hits his prime to start making these comparisons.

We don't 'know' ANYONE's career until it's over.

However, 5 years of NBA play gives you a pretty clear idea of what people can and can't do. By Ewing's 5th season he was putting up basically 29/11/2/4. We didn't need to wait a whole lot to see what kind of player Ewing would or could become at that point...why should we assume we should wait for some undetermined point of time to eval Bosh?

Should we assume that Bosh will encounter some kind of magical and virtually unprecedented late growth spurt in terms of talent? If you don't have a pretty good idea of what a guy can do after 5 years of starting in the NBA, I'd say the issue isn't with other people's perceptions, but likely your own.

[Kabookalu]

If I could trade Bosh for Ewing in his prime I wouldn't even think about it, my unconscious mind would say yes in an instant.

[RapsVC15]

Ewing lead his team to championship caliber as a #1 option, with straight garbage around him. As much as I love Starks and Oakley, they are role players. Bosh will never lead a championship team as a #1 option. The answer is Ewing, and this is a great thread for Raptor homers to be put in their place for calling a player great when he is soft and doesn't play defense. The only difference between Bosh and Aldridge, is Aldridge is actually in the right setup as a #3 option on a future championship team, while Bosh actually thinks he is a superstar.

yeah, all of one Raptor fan chose Ewing so far.

nice attempt at a completely pointless rant though.

[Luv those Knicks]

A good modern player to compare pat to is Duncan or KG.

and Yao could be up there soon. Dwight - that would have been interesting to see.

I kind of wish I could see Dwight play against a guy like Hakeem or DR just so I could compare him to those guys. I think Dwight has the same athleticism, but I don't thinkhe has the same skill.

I would have liked to see Ewing play Yao. Ewing had trouble against taller centers. Murisan gave him trouble one game. Ewing wasn't quite as quick as D-Rob or Hakeem, not quite as skilled, so Ewing could get beat. Rick Smits also gave Ewing some difficulty and I saw Brad Dougherty outplay him once or twice - not always, but here & there.

but while Smits & Dougherty occasionally gave Ewing trouble, I don't think anybody would say they were better than Ewing.

Ewing used to battle with Shaq, and sometimes hold his own, but that was a year or two past Ewing's prime, Shaq was a lot younger and a lot bigger.

All these guys were legit centers too.

I think Ewing would soundly outplay Bosh head to head. Ewing would be ammused at the little fly trying to guard him.

[NO-KG-AI]

Ewing would be a rough cover for Duncan and Garnett, over the course of a series, he would do irreparable damage to Bosh's self esteem.

[ronnymac2]

i take ewing. Ewing made the knicks great in a pretty tough era, and their strong defense was anchored by him. You can run an offense with bosh as ur number 1 option, but he can't anchor your d as well as ewing. Ewing's better scoring-wise, too.

[ILikeTheGrizz]

I know I saw it, but it seems weird now to consider Ewing agile or fast. He just looked so slow and uncoordinated, it can trick your memory. And I'm not even sure Bosh can out-ugly him. Ewing's not a pretty man, and he doesn't have enough gray hair on his back to qualify as an attractive gorilla so...

[tsherkin]

-= original quote snipped =-



Alright, I'm a man, I can admit I was wrong about Ewing.

That's a big move; respectable.

However, I still think Chris Bosh can be a number one option on a championship team. I mean, there's still a lot of time to improve his defense and he's a hard worker.

I think the first statement is separate from the second; his defense isn't what holds him back as a first option; if he was guarding 4s on a more regular basis, he'd look a lot better defensively. He's long and quick and does fairly well against perimeter bigs, it's the size he usually struggles to guard.

Then, he can be unstoppable offensively if his jumper is falling. He's too quick to be guarded off the dribble by other 4's and if you put a small guy on him he can post up despite what many believe. There's also the fact that he's learning to be a better leader and I think he can be a great leader in this league. This guy has his head on straight and he's willing to work for everything he gets, he's not one of those guys that will throw talents away.

The problem with Bosh is that his offense is fairly limited. It's an awkward thing to say of a 23 ppg scorer who draws fouls as well as he does but Bosh scores in a very small number of ways.

You see him get a lot of set jumpers waiting on the weak side of the floor while Calderon and whomever (Rasho, Bargs, Garbo last year, etc) run the high sidescreen. He's an outstanding mid-range and perimeter shooter, even has a touch of 3-point range.

He's great in an isolation scenario because of his quickness, length and jumper but he usually sets up in one of the same two sweet spots; the left wing or on the right baseline near the low post, facing up. He doesn't use a whole lot of the floor, he doesn't have a power game, his handles aren't spectacular and if you can stop the initial rush, his efficiency plummets like a bird missing a wing.

Bosh isn't a volume scorer, isn't a significant takeover option either. He works a lot within the scope of Toronto's offense and is heavily reliant on others because he players tweener offense. He's not strong enough to play like a big, nor is he diverse enough to really go at it like, say, Dirk.

Bosh is a very talented scorer, an All-Star and a FANTASTIC second option but the Raptors (or any team featuring Bosh) really need a dominant wing scorer alongside him to contend because Bosh isn't an elite scorer, "just" very talented.

The problem with Bosh is that he's neither an efficient volume scorer nor an excellent defender. The guys that lead their teams without being great defenders are outstanding scorers or offensive players in general. Here, we're talking about guys like Dirk, prime Webber, Lebron (though he's adding the D), Wade, 'Melo, Baron, Nash, Paul (though again, he's getting pretty solid on D), Roy, Deron/Boozer, Arenas.

Then you've got the guys who don't score as much but are crazy defenders, like Garnett and Duncan and a younger Kidd.

Bosh isn't either. He scores in volumes comparable to a Duncan or a Garnett but he isn't as good a passer as KG, isn't a low-block guy like Duncan and can't defend even CLOSE to the level of those guys, so his less dominant (I don't want to use the word "weaker" because it implies that Bosh is somehow deficient offensively when he's just simply not elite, rather than not good) offensive game fails to compensate.

Patrick Ewing was a big-time scorer AND a big-time defender and while he got undressed really badly by Olajuwon, that's really not a huge moment of shame given how disgustingly skilled and dangerous Olajuwon was in his prime.

Bosh pales in comparison to the Hoya Destroya for a reason. This is a guy who was dominant at every level, I mean he made the title game three times in four years in college and won it once (over Olajuwon, actually). He made the Finals with the Knicks in '94 and then was part of the team's run to the Finals in '99. Had some huge battles with Jordan's title Bulls, too and generally stacked up pretty well against the best of the best in his era (outside of that '94 Finals series, which was Part One of Olajuwon Owns the League).