Tayshaun Prince Vs. Travis Outlaw

[Village Idiot]

Short-term I think pretty much anybody would take Prince over Outlaw.

The OP though asked about the long-haul. The four and half year age difference is quite large.

The answer resides in what expectations one has for the development and duration of each player's career. Last year I would have answered Prince without even thinking about it. The improvement Outlaw has shown the past year indicates that perhaps Outlaw still has some improvement left and in the long-haul may be the better bet.

[Wizenheimer]

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Stats are sqewed from team to team and situation to situation. Mike James is a 20/5 guy on a 27 win team and not even in the ballpark on a good team for example. I prefer to watch players play and form an opinion then look at miniscule advantages in 36 minute adjusted numbers from players on different teams, and in drastically different situations.

I'm sorry, but I don't have any evidence your observational skills are better then mine or anyone else's. I HAVE seen Prince play dozens of times throughout his career at Detroit and probably 10-12 times at Kentucky. I've also seen outlaw play just about every game this season and dozens in the past.

You're free to ignore the steals and blocked shots stats. I did say that stats can be used...or mis-used to support either side. And it's true that blocked shots and steals in this case aren't really that significant. I'm not sure the same can be said of scoring and rebounding though, or what happens down the stretch in close games.

Yes, I'm a blazer fan and that could certainly indicate bias. But since I've seen Outlaw play so often it could also indicate that I know more about outlaw's game then you...after all, you're the one extolling the virtues of "watching players play". In other words, it's quite possible the difference between your "rather easily" and my "closer then most think" is because I have more information rather then more bias.

As VI pointed out, the poll question here was about the "long haul". I guess that "long haul" could be defined different ways. But if it's 5 years when Prince is 33 and Outlaw is 28, which is Prince's age now and would be about the time Outlaw was entering his prime and prince was leaving his, the question takes on a different meaning then who was better this season. If long haul is 9 years when Outlaw is 32 and prince is retired...then the edge definitely goes to Outlaw if it wasn't already there.

[DmoneyH3]

TRAVIS!!!!!!!!!!
He is a lot younger and still has untapped potential.

[Hendrix]

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I'm sorry, but I don't have any evidence your observational skills are better then mine or anyone else's. I HAVE seen Prince play dozens of times throughout his career at Detroit and probably 10-12 times at Kentucky. I've also seen outlaw play just about every game this season and dozens in the past.

You're free to ignore the steals and blocked shots stats. I did say that stats can be used...or mis-used to support either side. And it's true that blocked shots and steals in this case aren't really that significant. I'm not sure the same can be said of scoring and rebounding though, or what happens down the stretch in close games.

Yes, I'm a blazer fan and that could certainly indicate bias. But since I've seen Outlaw play so often it could also indicate that I know more about outlaw's game then you...after all, you're the one extolling the virtues of "watching players play". In other words, it's quite possible the difference between your "rather easily" and my "closer then most think" is because I have more information rather then more bias.

As VI pointed out, the poll question here was about the "long haul". I guess that "long haul" could be defined different ways. But if it's 5 years when Prince is 33 and Outlaw is 28, which is Prince's age now and would be about the time Outlaw was entering his prime and prince was leaving his, the question takes on a different meaning then who was better this season. If long haul is 9 years when Outlaw is 32 and prince is retired...then the edge definitely goes to Outlaw if it wasn't already there.

I didn't mean to come off as a dick in my other post, but after reading it I did. I just am not a fan of breaking everything down by statsistics. I mean if we did a Dwight Howard vs. David Lee comparison from last year they don't end up looking very different from a statistical standpoint.

PP36 minutes Lee 13 Howard 17.2
rebounds/36 Lee 12.5 Howard 12.0
FG% Lee .600% Howard .603%
FT% Lee.815% Howard .595%
Assits/36 Lee 2.2 Howard 1.9
Steals/36 Lee 1 Howard 0.8
Blocks/36 Lee 0.5 Howard 1.9
TS% Lee .652% Howard .619%

There's also a ton of players that are far worse players then Prince that would be better in every crunch time stat in a head to head comparison just because of the siutation they're in.

I'm not saying I know more about them, or am a better judge of talent then you by any means. You might of seen more games of theirs, and know more about them like you say but you didn't use any of that knowledge in your post. Just extrapolated stats. I just don't think breaking everything down by stats is a great measure. Especially in this case when the 2 players are in drastically differnt situations allowing one to get more stats, and a lot of what one guy does doesn't show up in the box scores.

[Wizenheimer]

I didn't mean to come off as a dick in my other post, but after reading it I did. I just am not a fan of breaking everything down by statsistics. I mean if we did a Dwight Howard vs. David Lee comparison from last year they don't end up looking very different from a statistical standpoint.

PP36 minutes Lee 13 Howard 17.2
rebounds/36 Lee 12.5 Howard 12.0
FG% Lee .600% Howard .603%
FT% Lee.815% Howard .595%
Assits/36 Lee 2.2 Howard 1.9
Steals/36 Lee 1 Howard 0.8
Blocks/36 Lee 0.5 Howard 1.9
TS% Lee .652% Howard .619%

There's also a ton of players that are far worse players then Prince that would be better in every crunch time stat in a head to head comparison just because of the siutation they're in.

I'm not saying I know more about them, or am a better judge of talent then you by any means. Just that I don't think breaking everything down by stats is a great measure. Especially in this case when the 2 players are in drastically differnt situations allowing one to get more stats, and a lot of what one guy does doesn't show up in the box scores.

first...no worries on the attitude thing

second...I remind you that I voted for Prince (but I'm having 2nd thoughts because of the age difference)

and third, as I mentioned a couple of times: I posted those stats because I was thinking that a lot of the people voting and commenting, especially comments about the comparison be insulting and such, really weren't that familiar with outlaw's game.

In the 2 season before this, the Blazers were on national TV one time. They weren't on a single time last season. They were on more this season because they drafted Oden, but once Oden went down a lot of their scheduled game were taken down. Blazer fans have seen plenty of comments over the last couple of seasons showing that a lot of other team's fans just didn't know a thing about the blazers.

So I wanted to demonstrate that Outlaw's production in a lot of areas is actually better then Prince's. it wasn't to say Outlaw was a better player, just that people probably weren't aware of what he actually does for portland. Yes, the players are in different situations. And one thing you didn't mention in Prince's favor is that often, players given the assignment of defending the other team's best player, will see their offensive production sink because of the focus on defense.

But I also think there are 2 other significant factors: the poll question being about the long haul, and the fact that Outlaw is 5 years younger make this a pretty close call.