Is LeBron better at making his teammates better, than Kobe?

[ko8e]

Is it a coincidence that everytime LeBron has a good game, the haters come up with things like this?

Hint: That's how you recognize a great player from the really good ones

I actually didn't see LeBron play....He did good? Believe me you will not see me make a thread to steal another player's shine.

I actually made this thread after seeing Kobe was going to win MVP, and hearing Larry Bird say, "Knowing Kobe has never been MVP, makes me want to throw mine away."(Props to Bird, by the way)

I actually realize the Media just hates on Kobe, I wanted to see if the average fan does, too.

By the way, LeBron will be great. Don't get so offended.

[TheOUTLAW]

That is such dumb logic. You made a thread commending Kobe for making winning the MVP by trying to argue that LeBron doesn't make his teammates better? There really was no need for LeBron to even be mentioned in this thread.

[kevC]

Kobe makes teammates better than Lebron as much as that comma is necessary in the thread title.

[NetsForce]

Statistically speaking Lebron generally DOES NOT make his teammates better.

The thing with Lebron is that he's not content with making the "hockey assist" or secondary pass.

I'll give you an example, my friend yesterday compared Wallyball Z to Brent Barry saying like Barry all he had to do was stand there catch the ball and shoot 3's.

But the difference between the two players is that Lebron dribbles out the shot clock for who the hell knows how long and then makes the 1 PASS to Wally who is forced to put up the shot.

In San Antonio the ball is passed not 1 time, but generally 2-3 times before the ball hits Brent Barry who can shoot the ball in rhythm.

What am I getting at?

Lebron is too much of a ball stopper. Kobe, even when he was going on those ridiculous 1 on 5 scoring binges was more willing to making the extra pass.

The fact that Kobe actually moves without the ball also helps his teammates out, as it sometimes drags the defense in one direction creating more space for whoever has the ball to operate.

[Hendrix]

I think Lebron is better suited to make guys that can't create their own shot better, but Kobe's better at working with his teamates within an offensive structure. Personally I I think a guy that can work inside of a teams offense instead of having all the offense tun through him is more condusive to winning. But we havn't really seen LBJ with good teamates yet either.

[RockTHECasbah]

LeBron is better in this aspect at the same age

Had a hell of a head-start too

[og15]

I think Lebron is better suited to make guys that can't create their own shot better, but Kobe's better at working with his teamates within an offensive structure. Personally I I think a guy that can work inside of a teams offense instead of having all the offense tun through him is more condusive to winning. But we havn't really seen LBJ with good teamates yet either.

Or maybe we just haven't seen him in a good offense, what Cleveland runs is hardly a "real" offense. It's pretty yuck for lack of a better word. I think the guys on Cleveland right now aren't too bad, Delonte West, Daniel Gibson, Wally Szczerbiak, Zydrunas Ilguaskas. That is three decent-nice starters and one good small guard off the bench. And there's also Joe Smith off the bench. If they maintained defensive intensity and ran something resembling real offense it would look much different.

[BRINGTHEPAIN]

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At your age you're into 15 year olds?

my age? whats my age?

[eatyourchildren]

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Or maybe we just haven't seen him in a good offense, what Cleveland runs is hardly a "real" offense. It's pretty yuck for lack of a better word. I think the guys on Cleveland right now aren't too bad, Delonte West, Daniel Gibson, Wally Szczerbiak, Zydrunas Ilguaskas. That is three decent-nice starters and one good small guard off the bench. And there's also Joe Smith off the bench. If they maintained defensive intensity and ran something resembling real offense it would look much different.

It's a very basic 1-man oriented offense. Run down the shotclock until the defense collapses, and then kick out to a shooter. Not really a free-flowing offense at all.

[That Nicka]

At age 23 I'd say LeBron is much better than Kobe was at 23

But right now, I'd say Kobe is better of the two... People are just starting to realize how much Kobe makes his teammates better... Smush and Kwame were serviceable and they may not even be in the league next year... This season, I believe all of: Lamar, Pau, Fisher, Sasha, Farmar, Ariza and Bynum have career highs in FG%.... In the past few years, everyone that has played with Kobe has seen a jump in their FG%.. and everyone that has been traded away has seen their FG% drop

[ILikeTheGrizz]

I don't believe in the whole "make teammates better thing", it doesn't exist. Players make things easier for teammates to succeed, Shaq is a great example of this and probably the most obvious.

LeBron has led his team to the Finals and that's more than Kobe's done but Kobe was in tougher conference. But LeBron beat the Pistons and Kobe couldn't beat the Suns so...

Still, it's probably Kobe right now, simply because he has more experience on the NBA court, I'd be shocked if someone with alot less experience- anyone- knew how to hide teammates weaknesses and multiply teammates strengths better.

[HitMan52]

At age 23 I'd say LeBron is much better than Kobe was at 23

But right now, I'd say Kobe is better of the two... People are just starting to realize how much Kobe makes his teammates better... Smush and Kwame were serviceable and they may not even be in the league next year... This season, I believe all of: Lamar, Pau, Fisher, Sasha, Farmar, Ariza and Bynum have career highs in FG%.... In the past few years, everyone that has played with Kobe has seen a jump in their FG%.. and everyone that has been traded away has seen their FG% drop

The thing that makes LeBron a crazy talent is that even at his age he is still comparable to Kobe while there is about a 6-7 year age difference which is crazy. I dont want the cavs to have good players but when LeBron actually gets a coach who actually has an offensive system then you will really see how good himself and his teams can be.

[Benedict_Boozer]

It helps that the triangle offense is conducive to good ball movement, spacing, etc. Then when you have passers like Gasol/Odom that effect is just multiplied and guys get clean looks in rhythm.

What the Cavs run is not really an "offense"...the Cavs basically hand Lebron the ball and he scores or sets up someone else with an open look. It's why they couldn't win a game this year when he doesn't play, no one knows what to do or can create for themselves

[That Nicka]

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The thing that makes LeBron a crazy talent is that even at his age he is still comparable to Kobe while there is about a 6-7 year age difference which is crazy. I dont want the cavs to have good players but when LeBron actually gets a coach who actually has an offensive system then you will really see how good himself and his teams can be.

I definitely agree

[That Nicka]

I don't believe in the whole "make teammates better thing", it doesn't exist. Players make things easier for teammates to succeed, Shaq is a great example of this and probably the most obvious.

But dont you make your teammates better by making things easier for them? If they can knock down open looks and you are the one getting them open looks, aren't you making them better?

LeBron has led his team to the Finals and that's more than Kobe's done but Kobe was in tougher conference. But LeBron beat the Pistons and Kobe couldn't beat the Suns so...

what in the world does that have to do with making your teammates better...

76ers won two games against the Pistons this year, Lakers only won one game against them in 2004.. So Iguoudala must be better than Kobe, or he at least makes his teammates better than Kobe does

[Bgil]

At age 23 I'd say LeBron is much better than Kobe was at 23

But right now, I'd say Kobe is better of the two...

What does Kobe, at 29, do better than Lebron now that he didn't do better at 23?

One could make the case (disregarding intangables) that Lebron is closer to 29 year old Kobe than 23 yr old Kobe. At 23 Kobe was arguably the league's top on ball defender, best swingman penetrator etc. He was putting up 5+ assists in a league where you could lead the league with 8-9 assists. The pace of the game was much slower, there was no handcheck "rule" etc. and he still managed 28.5/5.5/5 and All NBA D (for the third time).

I don't see any metric that allows one to think Lebron was better at 23 while Kobe is better at 29. Either Lebron is better period or Kobe is better.

[ILikeTheGrizz]

But dont you make your teammates better by making things easier for them? If they can knock down open looks and you are the one getting them open looks, aren't you making them better?

No, it means you make it easier for them to succeed. They're not actually better.

what in the world does that have to do with making your teammates better...

He was able to put his teammates in a situation where they were able to help him get to the Finals. Pretty clear.