Rasheed Wallace, most talented player ever?

[prekazi]

Wow, No he's definitely not. He's not even in top 10 or 20. And save those "mindset" theories for Vince Carter. At least he had a top level combination of athleticism and skill. What's Sheed's top level skill other than his unstoppable post up fadeaway shot?(By top level I don't mean good, I mean great, rrreeeaaal Great)

[penbeast0]

Smith didn't claim Rasheed was the most talented player ever, only the most talented he has coached. Smith also has always had a deliberately paced, big man oriented offense at North Carolina so his system showcases big man talents better. (remember the famous line that Dean Smith was the only man that could hold MJ to under 20 pts a game) So, what he is really saying is that Rasheed is more talented for his system than the likes of James Worthy, Brad Daugherty, etc. in terms of big men and that again, as a big man, he was more talented for the UNC system than great wings/guards like Jordan, Vince Carter, Phil Ford, etc.

Still a pretty incredible statement, but not the same as saying he was more talented than Wilt/Kareem/etc.

[conleyorbust]

He's not even close to being the most talented player ever. He's not even the most talented PF in the NBA right now. KG is more talented than him. KG can shoot 3s and hit them if he wanted to. Unlike Rasheed, KG knows that he's more effective when he's not shooting 3s. I would say that he's about as talented as Dirk.

He is a better defender than Dirk, no arguing that. Dirk is better at rebounding and literally every aspect of offense. Dirk has a better midrange game, more range, he is much better slasher and ball handler, much better passer, and he has the same post fadeaway that he can use from even farther out.

People like to assume that Sheed could have been so much better because it is fun to imagine. Same thing with Thompson, or Carter, or Coleman.

[schaffy]

KG is the most overrated player of his generation...a career loser and someone who doesn't want the ball in crunch time is what I see when I look in his eyes, and some yelling to try and cover that up.

Sheed can do everything. Defensively he is phenomenal, sick post moves, 3 point shooting, good passing, the only thing that holds him back is the desire to dominate. He doesn't want that...all he cares about is winning. If he has MJ's mindset and work ethic there is no doubt in my mind that he would be arguable for the GOAT.

But that is part of what made MJ so great. That mindset and work ethic helped make him great. Very few people have that kind of determination and way of thinking.

And what makes him so overrated? Because the FO in Minny sucked and never got him good complementary players? Because he practically single-handedly brought his team to the playoffs? Because they one year he did have any help, he got to the WCF only to have his starting and backup PG go down?

[Dirk_diggler_41]

He USED to be dominant

When? He was a very good player for Portland, but he was never dominant.

[Fatty]

If anyone had Jordan's mind set and work ethic they would be in the talking for GOAT

[mattg]

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Even if you think KG is overrated, he is still a much more accomplished player than Rasheed.

Prime KG is taller, longer, stronger, faster in the open floor, a more explosive leaper, leaps and bounds better as a ball handler and passer, a better post defender, a better perimeter defender, a better help defender, a far better rebounder, can do anything Rasheed does in the post, and is about equally as good a shooter, better inside 20 feet, worse from outside.

He's not far better in all of those categories, but there is nothing Rasheed can do that KG can't, and he's not bigger or a better athlete, so I don't see how he can be more talented.

the thing Rasheed can do that KG can't? Win championships? Not yell like moron for some fake intensity? I thought Zaza Pachulia was gonna beat the crap outta KG last series.

Yes, athletically KG is better but that isn't everything. I personally think KG is overrated lately on defense and he is better as a help defender and not great on ball. I just look at it like this, if KG and Sheed each played the best game of their careers, against each other and they both D'ed up on each other, I think Sheed comes out on top. No one can convince me otherwise. KG has always just struck me as soft. If someone ever yelled at me on the court like that I wouldnt ever be able to take them seriously again, I'd prolly laugh in their face.

[richboy]

Rasheed has won title last i remember. Rasheed won 1 title playing half the season. I have a feeling that the Pistons would win a lot more with KG.

[SuigintouEV]

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the thing Rasheed can do that KG can't? Win championships?

One championship against a team playing 2

[NO-KG-AI]

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the thing Rasheed can do that KG can't? Win championships? Not yell like moron for some fake intensity? I thought Zaza Pachulia was gonna beat the crap outta KG last series.

Yes, athletically KG is better but that isn't everything. I personally think KG is overrated lately on defense and he is better as a help defender and not great on ball. I just look at it like this, if KG and Sheed each played the best game of their careers, against each other and they both D'ed up on each other, I think Sheed comes out on top. No one can convince me otherwise. KG has always just struck me as soft. If someone ever yelled at me on the court like that I wouldnt ever be able to take them seriously again, I'd prolly laugh in their face.

Every statistical measure disagrees with you about defense, and KG can do it while playing great off the ball D and rebounding the ball.

Rasheed's opponents score 17.5 pp48, on 47.8%, with an 18.2 PER, and a 20.6 PER when he guards the 4 spot. His team is 2 points worse when he sits.

KG's man scores 17.1 ppg, on 42% shooting, for a PER of 13.9. When Garnett guards the 5, its 15.3 on 48%, and a PER of 16.7. The Celtics are 4.1 points worse when KG is off the floor.

Garnett guards both frontcourt spots better, he rebounds better, he has a much bigger impact on team D, and his teammates around him aren't good defensively.

If KG is soft, then Rasheed is paper, his highest shooting % in Detroit was 44%, and he's never gotten more than 8.2 rebounds per game.

As for the ring, if you swap KG and Rasheed, they win the ring against LA, and they probably beat San antonio the next year, and they don't blow up against lesser teams in the ECF's.

No one can convince me otherwise.

Because you are a biased hater.

[mattg]

ooooh stats tell it all don't they? Stats can help you compare players on paper but when I watch both players play I think that Sheed playing his best game is gonna be better than KG playing his best game, and in my mind that makes him more talented. Plus Sheed was a winner in college too

And sure you can say they would win those titles with KG but you can't be positive. Would they have? Most likely, but its not even relevant.

As for the +/- thing, you can't use that to compare them. Sheed's bench players are far better than KG's, of course the Celtics are gonna be far better with him in the game, frickin Leon Powe is their backup.

and biased? perhaps, I just think KG gets far more credit than deserved for what he has accomplished.

[NO-KG-AI]

Well stats can tell how good he is playing defense on his man. And since we both agree KG is a better help defender, I don't really see an argument in Rasheed's favor other than " I just think he's better."

[schaffy]

Leon Powe
14.5 Min/8pts/4rbs/.572 %

Jason Maxiell
21.5 Min/8pts/5rbs/ .538 %

Powe produces the same as Maxiell in 2/3rds the time. So it looks like KG actually has the better backup. But what do I know? I am just looking at the silly stats.

[mattg]

anyone can put up numbers is all I'm saying but not everyone can win. It's like that on all levels of competition in EVERY sport. I am a big time track guy and in no sport is it as obvious. Some guys run blazing fast all season but they just don't have the chops come championship time. At the end of the day no one cares if you just ran the world record if you can't come home with the gold medal. Some guys just can't win no matter what they do, Malone couldn't even win dragging himself on the coattails of Shaq and Kobe. It's like Sheed says, 'ball don't lie' some guys are just not cut out to be winners.

Obviously KG is a superior player to Sheed, I wouldn't dare argue that, but on a talent level I think Sheed is just ahead.

As for Leon Powe vs. Jason Maxiell, whatever, every time I see Jason Maxiell play he makes some sort of impact. I can't say the same for Powe, he puts up the numbers but he has never struck me as a guy who will go in the game and make a big play.

[LakerLegend]

Quite possibly one of the most talented, but not the most. Near 7 feet, with GREAT defense, amazing athlete(in his youth), and and LEGITIMATE 3 point range. We all know how the Pistons say he has the highest bball IQ on the team. I remember him carving up the Lakers in the 2000 WCF. We had NO answer for him.

[conleyorbust]

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the thing Rasheed can do that KG can't? Win championships? Not yell like moron for some fake intensity? I thought Zaza Pachulia was gonna beat the crap outta KG last series.

Yes, athletically KG is better but that isn't everything. I personally think KG is overrated lately on defense and he is better as a help defender and not great on ball. I just look at it like this, if KG and Sheed each played the best game of their careers, against each other and they both D'ed up on each other, I think Sheed comes out on top. No one can convince me otherwise. KG has always just struck me as soft. If someone ever yelled at me on the court like that I wouldnt ever be able to take them seriously again, I'd prolly laugh in their face.

If KG is soft what is Sheed? Sheed is scared of rebounding and inside play.

Udonis Haslem was also a power forward on a championship team and he is closer to Sheed statistically than Sheed is to KG, does that mean that Haslem is as good as Sheed?

[Cammo101]

He is not the most talented, but he is a heck of a lot more talented than his numbers would indicate.

[tmac4real]

maybe the most underachieving player in history in terms of players who weren't hampered by injury and showed glimpses of greatness for minute at a time.

13 and 7 is not indicative of how good a player Sheed is.

He should/could be averaging around 22 PPG 10 RPG 4 APG 50% 40% 3PFG% and some alltime D.

[The_Believer]

Another player who had legendary talent but never the work ethic is Baron. He had Shaq's size and dominance (at his position), he had breakaway open court speed, and amazing body control in the air, the ability to get to the rim, and explosive hops (43"-45" vertical) like Vince did. IMO he's arguably one of the most physically and athletically gifted players of this era, if not ever. Also, his skillset wasn't half bad by any means. He had a great post game, playmaking and clutch skills, was an elite rebounder at his position, could score in almost any way, and has unguardable handles.
But sadly, many years of laziness and being overweight going into camp, caring more about his Hollywood career never allowed him to live up to his potential. Hell, I'd be damned if he lived up to 10% of it, and this is coming from a fan of his.

And back to the topic, KG is more talented than Sheed. KG averaged 20-10-5-~1-~2 for 6 straight years, which is a record. Guy also used to drop TD's all the time, and led the league in PER year after year.

[carrottop12]

Sheed is as talented as anyone in the league, he definitely was in his prime, but he just never fought for it.