Hakeem vs Dikembe

[Harry Palmer]

In terms of the 'other stuff' Hakeem did, I think some are discounting what a difference that makes in terms of actual on court play.

For example, on any given defensive play, Hakeem may have come and out and shown on a pick and roll, kept his own man reigned in, challenged a penetration at mid-court, flanked off another pick to seal the baseline cut, and still been in place to make the block at a rate equivalent to Deke, who that whole time was simply stationed in the post, waiting for the shot-block opp + guarding his man.

And if you saw Hakeem play, you'll know I am not exaggerating...that kind of possession would be anything but atypical for him. It's an easy notion to sort of compartmentalize the steals from the blocks and rebounds, but in actual effect the combination plays out much more significantly in real time.

And that effectual difference is not just on the perim...as some have noted, most of the other stuff he did that Deke did not do had as much impact inside, if not more.

So that's also why Hakeem's blocks were often of a more spectacular nature than Deke's Mutombo was an absolute monster at the standard block, a la Eaton...the 'you can't get it past or over me if you come at me, but you're welcome to keep trying' type.

Hakeem was also great at those, but because he was doing so much more on the defensive end, he also had to master other kinds, in particular the ones where you'd see him track the shooter like a cat, coming from the side, and just explode in perfect time as the offensive player went for the basket.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBrEsNS9zKg

Look at the 1:20 and 2:14, 2:56, 3:08, 5:13 points of this video for an example...it's not just weakside vs. strongside blocking, it's the guy actually stalking the shooter. I've only heard of Russell doing it like Hakeem.

Additionally, as watching the earlier part of that video alone will show, it's not just a matter of Deke's length vs. Hakeem's quickness...Hakeem also had incredible lift, and used it most on defense, and he had freakishly long arms.

I think Mutombo is fantastic at what he does, but Hakeem is on a different level.

[tha_rock220]

As a Rockets fan I have to say I have loved having Deke in Houston the past few years, I've become a fan of his, and I hope he's still here next season, but it all ends there.

What Hakeem provided on defense went way beyond numbers(defense isn't really played with numbers). If you had the ball on offense and you didn't see Hakeem you stopped what you were doing and found him. If you were a big man who like facing up you generally could expect to have that part of your game taken away. He was a ballhawk who could protect the rim.

Case in point, and I'll apologize ahead of time to Knicks fans, watch game 6 of the 94 finals. He blocked John Starks' game winning attempt after he hadn't missed for the entire 4th quarter. In a box score that only shows up as a block, but the truth is he came with a soft trap to stop the shot, forces Starks left, then got the block.

[Harry Palmer]

As a Rockets fan I have to say I have loved having Deke in Houston the past few years, I've become a fan of his, and I hope he's still here next season, but it all ends there.

What Hakeem provided on defense went way beyond numbers(defense isn't really played with numbers). If you had the ball on offense and you didn't see Hakeem you stopped what you were doing and found him. If you were a big man who like facing up you generally could expect to have that part of your game taken away. He was a ballhawk who could protect the rim.

Case in point, and I'll apologize ahead of time to Knicks fans, watch game 6 of the 94 finals. He blocked John Starks' game winning attempt after he hadn't missed for the entire 4th quarter. In a box score that only shows up as a block, but the truth is he came with a soft trap to stop the shot, forces Starks left, then got the block.

Yeah, exactly.

The problem with Hakeem is that he combined so many things in such an unusual way that people's thought patterns aren't accustomed to taking it in. For example, people take in 'great shot blocker' and 'great at steals' and 'great at coming out' or whatever, and they tend to, in their minds, compartmentalize those aspects. Like 'okay, on one given play he was the shot-blocking guy...on another he was the perim guy', etc.

Because no one else combined those things to the same degree (maybe Russell, can't comment) we tend to assume a guy is doing one dominant thing at a time.

But as you mentioned, Hakeem would routinely do several great things on a given play. The most common combination, which would happen several times a game, would be this kind of sequence:

1) Deny post entry pass, so ballhandler has to penetrate.
2) Rotate over and seal off penetrator, forcing him to pass off.
3) Rotate again and alter or block shot of person ballhandler was forced to dump off to.

That was routine.

There has never been anyone else I've seen who just did all that stuff so consistently. David Robinson had the athleticism to pull it off at times, but not the instincts and freakish change of direction. A few others could combine some things at a high level. No one I've seen could combine so many things at such a high level, and to think this was compartmentalized...ie, perim or interior defense alone...is to understandably misunderstand Hakeem's play.

[_BBIB_]

Who is the better interior defensive player?

And who in your opinion was stronger? Both guys were very lean but evidently extremely strong for their size.

It's Mutombo easily but people will say Hakeem just because he was flashier and better overall player.

Mutombo for his defensive longevity alone should make him a HOFer.

[LiQz]

Who is the better<b> interior </b> defensive player?

I would go with Deke, Hakeem was a better overall defender though because he could come out.

[tsherkin]

It's Mutombo easily but people will say Hakeem just because he was flashier and better overall player.

Mutombo for his defensive longevity alone should make him a HOFer.

Deke was definitely not stronger. He was pretty strong but he wasn't stronger, certainly didn't have the same base as Dream. Olajuwon was like 6'10 (e.g. 4" shorter than Deke) and about 10 pounds heavier, with stockier legs (e.g. a better base). It was harder to move him around. Deke's legs and high center of gravity gave his opponents a lot of leverage unless he had the space to lean into them, diminishing the efficacy of his height.

He was a great defender and a very good man defender as well as a prolific and dangerous help defender but he was not stronger than Olajuwon, certainly not in the sense useful to basketball but not in general, either.

As to longevity... what? Hakeem played for 18 seasons, Deke hasn't yet, he just finished number 17 and his minutes have diminished to minuscule levels. Dream averaged no less than 22.6 mpg (that in Toronto in his final season).