2008 NBA Finals is an indication that Lebron>Kobe

[tkb]

Neither LeBron nor Kobe dominated the Celtics in the playoffs. Kobe shot 40% in his series, and LeBron shot 35% in his. Boston D was excellent, and they deserve a ton of props for limiting the 2 best players in the league that much. Their playoffs series against Boston is not the best judging stick to determine who's better.

[Derekman]

Wow, the only reason the Boston-Cavs series went to 7 is because of the Cavs overall D and rebounding. Lebron played just as good as Lebron (or just as bad, however you want to put it).

[eatyourchildren]

Ahh imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Thanks sugar.

It's gonna be a long offseason for you if you refuse to believe that Kobe isn't far ahead of his peers- or even worse.

Why? Bynum's coming back and Kobe will get even more ammo for his "makes teammates better" card. I think Kobe might have a career high in assists next season depending on how much they play Lamar at the point-forward slot. I don't think he's far ahead of his peers. I think he's palpably ahead though.

BTW, Kobe had a torn ligament throughout the entire playoffs and his worse shooting percentage through a series was 40% with a high of 53% in another series. That unstoppable monster truck of a player, with no such injuries, shot as poorly as 35% and as high as 51%? And that's indicative of Lebron > Kobe? Not to mention, in their respective series against the Celts, only twice did the Cavs go over 90 points, while the Lakers went over 90 points 4 times.

My point is, it was the defense of the Cavs that took the series that far, not the offense. If it had been a high scoring affair, you'd have a point in that LeBron is like 85% of the offense, so let's put that 7-game push on his shoulders. But it wasn't. It was defense vs. defense, of which LeBron is NOT 85% of his squad. Unless you're going to make the assertion that LeBron makes his teammates' defense better, which is kind of absurd since he's a swing and defensive impact in that regard has a pretty hard cap on it.

Comparing crap to crap in a contextual whole that is crap as well...yeah sounds like a Farm Raid argument to me.

[Farm Raid]

That would be a good post, IF I EVER SAID THAT THEIR RESPECTIVE SERIES AGAINST THE CELTICS SHOWED HOW ONE WAS BETTER THAN THE OTHER. But I didn't. Nice self-owning, that was funny.

Lern2reed.

[eatyourchildren]

That would be a good post, IF I EVER SAID THAT THEIR RESPECTIVE SERIES AGAINST THE CELTICS SHOWED HOW ONE WAS BETTER THAN THE OTHER. But I didn't. Nice self-owning, that was funny.

Lern2reed.

Your regular season comparison is dated, because 1. we already discussed this in the mvp thread and 2. kobe did better than lebron in the playoffs, making those arguments about kobe's separation vis a vis paul and lebron in the MVP thread valid

30.1 5.7 5.6 .479 .302 .809 Record in playoffs: 14:7
28.2 7.8 7.6 .411 .257 .731 Record in playoffs: 7:6

This topic is not even going to allow your point that we should retroactively look at the regular season until you've persuaded us that Kobe wasn't better than LeBron in the playoffs. lulz at you tripping over yourself to make a worthwhile point. You're like an autistic kid trying to run too fast for his feet to follow

[Point forward]

2008 NBA Playoffs is the surefire indication that Josh Smith > Lebron and Kobe

[Farm Raid]

That would be a good post, IF I EVER SAID THAT THEIR RESPECTIVE SERIES AGAINST THE CELTICS SHOWED HOW ONE WAS BETTER THAN THE OTHER. But I didn't. Nice self-owning, that was funny.

Lern2reed.

Your regular season comparison is dated, because 1. we already discussed this in the mvp thread and 2. kobe did better than lebron in the playoffs, making those arguments about kobe's separation vis a vis paul and lebron in the MVP thread valid

30.1 5.7 5.6 .479 .302 .809 Record in playoffs: 14:7
28.2 7.8 7.6 .411 .257 .731 Record in playoffs: 7:6

This topic is not even going to allow your point that we should retroactively look at the regular season until you've persuaded us that Kobe wasn't better than LeBron in the playoffs. lulz at you tripping over yourself to make a worthwhile point. You're like an autistic kid trying to run too fast for his feet to follow

No one knows what you're talking about because you're too busy moving the goalposts to make a coherent argument- and you're still failing.

Someone said "The 2008 season is an indication that LeBron> Kobe", and I said I agreed. That's pretty simple and straightfoward. You got butthurt that someone thinks LeBron is a little better than Kobe, I guess- as if Kobe Bryant is good enough that no one in the league can compare to him. No one but hardcore Kobe jockers think that, by the way. So I noted that for those people- of which you're obviously one- this gonna be a long summer of trying to justify Kobe's dominance over his peers. It's a myth that's been thoroughly busted.

Then you post this gem:

Why? Bynum's coming back and Kobe will get even more ammo for his "makes teammates better" card. I think Kobe might have a career high in assists next season depending on how much they play Lamar at the point-forward slot. I don't think he's far ahead of his peers. I think he's palpably ahead though.

BTW, Kobe had a torn ligament throughout the entire playoffs and his worse shooting percentage through a series was 40% with a high of 53% in another series. That unstoppable monster truck of a player, with no such injuries, shot as poorly as 35% and as high as 51%? And that's indicative of Lebron > Kobe? Not to mention, in their respective series against the Celts, only twice did the Cavs go over 90 points, while the Lakers went over 90 points 4 times.

My point is, it was the defense of the Cavs that took the series that far, not the offense. If it had been a high scoring affair, you'd have a point in that LeBron is like 85% of the offense, so let's put that 7-game push on his shoulders. But it wasn't. It was defense vs. defense, of which LeBron is NOT 85% of his squad. Unless you're going to make the assertion that LeBron makes his teammates' defense better, which is kind of absurd since he's a swing and defensive impact in that regard has a pretty hard cap on it.

That has hardly anything to do with anything I said. Stop crying about your boy Kobe. Someone says they think LeBron is better and you flip out. I mean seriously. Get a grip. So, anyway, I tell you that that doesn't have anything to do with anything I've said and write your latest spurious novella. You bring up the MVP as if that award always goes to the best player in the league instead of a top 5 or so player on a top 5 or so team.

Seriously, what is wrong with you? I think LeBron played better than Kobe in the regular season, and I think many people who believed Kobe was better believed they played to about a standstill but that Kobe had the killer instinct, the clutchness, the je ne ce pais to put him over the top and it would be seen when the chips were down. He didn't show that.

What we saw was that whatever attribute of that sort he has, it's not any better than the dollop of it that LeBron has. It's very simple and now people like you are bending over backwards to try to obfuscate or just plain explain away the facts that everyone in the basketball world has seen. Including these asinine arguments where you in one post create a strawman and in the next argue that the MVP award is a referendum on the best player in the league. No one ever believes that, why do you expect people to believe it now?

You've honestly made a fool of yourself in like three threads on this page. Figure out when to just walk away. You couldn't do it in the KG-Kobe thread, flying in the face of about 15 respected posters and the facts, try to do it here, at least with me. Stop with the strawman's and claiming the MVP is the best player. THe MVP is among and that's not a newsflash to anyone above the age of 15.

Actually, I'm sure you're gonna post something you think is witty. Whatever, get the last word in, somehow try to refute that a great many people believe that LeBron has, if not passed up Kobe, certainly equaled him. Get Bgil to try and help. No one is buying it. Post some drivel and maybe an ad hominem attack and go back in your **** hole.

[eatyourchildren]

Have you argued so much you've muddied up your own point? One of the topics of the MVP thread was whether LeBron was indeed a better player through the regular season than Kobe. One of the arguments was that there was still separation--supported by Kobe's non-statistically measured attributes making up for at LEAST the margin between them stats wise.

Your whole shtick is that the playoffs showed that Kobe wasn't any better than LeBron in the playoffs, thus disproving whatever intangible element he had over LeBron. Look at their play in the playoffs--Kobe was better and more efficient, even from the stats alone. Thus the very argument that LeBron played Kobe to a standstill in the playoffs rests on the notion that LeBron had a longer series against the Celtics.

So either you believed LeBron played equal or better than Kobe against the Celts and that means something (which is wrong), or you believe that LeBron played equal or better than Kobe through the playoffs (which is, again, wrong) and that means your rebuttal to the "Kobe has intangibles that separate him from LeBron" from the MVP thread is as of yet still unsupported. Well guess what, neither of those supports your opinion that LeBron is better than Kobe even during the regular season. The whole pro-kobe argument in the MVP thread (of which the non-MVP discussion of who was better, Kobe or LeBron, was nestled in there) was, according to you, contingent on Kobe's play in the playoffs. And guess what, he DID play better. Keep grasping onto the mischaracterization that my referencing the MVP thread is substantively the same as saying that MVP=best, while intelligent people realize that I'm referencing the different debated topics within that one thread.

Your inability to follow or make a coherent argument that isn't kindergarten-level linear is hilarious. If you want to argue opinions, fine. But if you want to step into the logic ring, make sure you are able to take off the kiddie gloves and last more than one round, ok?

Not to mention, a few people think that KG was the overwhelming leader and suddenly I'm wrong about that too? Go to the Celtics board, chock full of Celtics homers. Should some of them be lambasted for giving more credit to the leadership of the Pierce/Allen tandem. And guess what, they're not even "haters" like me. KG's "facts" (and by facts you mean statistics) have always been amazing to look at. But he's always shared the same faults as David Robinson and Karl Malone and Patrick Ewing, guys who've always had dominant "facts." And yet nobody would call them the "overwhelming" leaders of any of their championship runs. Coincidence?

[C'mon Cavs]

There is so much that I would like to say about the idea to make this thread in general, and all of the posts that have come after it, but I think I can sum up my thoughts into one word...

LOCK!!!

[LiquidFire]

2008 NBA Playoffs is the surefire indication that Josh Smith > Lebron and Kobe

You're right! 14 points on 36 percent with 6 rebounds and 2 assists IS AMAZING!

[Tekkenlaw]

Terrible logic, maybe if Lebron actually had a half decent series and Ray Allen didn't play like crap it would have some credibility.