Wade's finals apperance on the Lakers...

[kooldude]

Here's the bad: Wade is an inferior defender and jumpshooter than Kobe.

Kobe is a much better shooter but Remember we are talking about 06 Wade....he shot 38% from NBA 3 in the playoffs compared to Kobes 30%....

And what makes Kobe a better defender?...Kobe was put on guys like Brewer, Bowen, Rondo these playoffs...he was asked to roam.....he was asked to help out on others, maybe get some steals and block shots...same exact role that Wade took in 06 except that Wade was more succesful in picking off passes and was a 1000000x better shotblocker.

Basically putting either Lebron/Wade/Kobe on the Lakers.....i think Lebron would do the best, hes the only one of the 3 that can guard Pierce, Ray Allen wouldnt go off..they would focus on Ray Allen and let Lebron go 1 on 1 vs. Pierce like in the Cavs series......hes a better playmaker and shot blocker, he would struggle with his shot, but like we saw..hed be able to get to the free throw line more often.

What is the point of posting Wade 3 point % in 06 when you already acknowledged that Kobe is the superior player? Are you trying to imply that Wade's hot streak in the 06 playoffs would carry over against the Celtics? The 06 playoffs are an isolated circumstance, just like the Nuggets series and Celtics series for Kobe; there is very little to suggest Wade will have that kind of shooting success against a defense which is superior to any of his opposition in 06, not to mention that his '06 3point % is 17.1%.....

what makes Kobe a better defender? Probably all those 1st team All-Defense selections. Kobe's a better help defender than Wade; help defense isn't all about steals/blocks. btw, Wade's BPG in 06 is 0.8 while Kobe's now is 0.5. Not exactly 100000X better. And at times Kobe was assigned to guard Pierce on man defense, which Wade can't do as well.

[kooldude]

Didnt Wade average like 13 ppg on like 23% against the Celtics during the regular season?

I don't think an injured Wade counts.

[CB4MiamiHeat]

people gotta stop bringing up Wades stats against the Celtics this season...Wade wasnt even a top 10 player in basketball this season, this years Wade would do horrible against the Celtics. Thats not what the thread is about.

And kooldude, your response is so flawed..from bringing up Kobes 1st team All-NBA defense as to why hes better defensively..to asking why i brought up 2006 Wade, when thats exactly what the threadstarter is asking for. Bringing up Wades season stats, when everyone saw he was a completely different monster in the playoffs.

[kooldude]

people gotta stop bringing up Wades stats against the Celtics this season...Wade wasnt even a top 10 player in basketball this season, this years Wade would do horrible against the Celtics. Thats not what the thread is about.

And kooldude, your response is so flawed..from bringing up Kobes 1st team All-NBA defense as to why hes better defensively..to asking why i brought up 2006 Wade, when thats exactly what the threadstarter is asking for. Bringing up Wades season stats, when everyone saw he was a completely different monster in the playoffs.

how is bringing up All-NBA defense selections a flawed way of determining quality defenders? Are you actually suggesting that Wade was a better defender than Kobe? I would say that I personally think Kobe is much better but I would think sportswriters would be more credible.

Obviously, the 06 Wade in the playoffs was tremendous. But that's not a basis for suggesting that, that would carry over against the Celtics which are far superior defensively than Wade's 06 opposition. That line of reasoning is like saying "well Kobe was so dominant in the 08 playoffs, best playoff performer, so he must do well against the Celtics because was a beast in the 08 playoffs prior to the Finals". Clearly that's not the case. But as you try to imply with an 06 Wade, the NBA analysts try to suggest the same with an 08 Kobe which is largely why the Lakers were heavily favored. Don't make their mistake.

[Malinhion]

While the Celtics were a much better defensive team, Wade's slashing and short-to-midrange game is what killed Dallas in the Finals. Kobe was having success on his drives but settled for jumpers far too often and in critical moments. He was playing more like Carter or T-Mac.

[dingclancy]

People do not seem to comprehend Celtics D. Lol.

I don't even think Wade can shoot a jumper in his stand still form against the Celtics which means he has no jumper to use. Also, I don't care if Wade can drive and drive and drive. The Celtics will not allow him. An 06 Wade will not get through that defense.

[CB4MiamiHeat]

People do not seem to comprehend Celtics D. Lol.

I don't even think Wade can shoot a jumper in his stand still form against the Celtics which means he has no jumper to use. Also, I don't care if Wade can drive and drive and drive. The Celtics will not allow him. An 06 Wade will not get through that defense.

Lebron got to the line 13 times a game..and was in the lane often in the latter part of the series.....maybe Wade would too since he usually gets to the line more than Lebron? Hed probably average a **** load of turnovers trying to drive....this whole thread is based on assumptions..lets just wait until next year.

[Miami's Finest]

A healthy Wade wouldn't only settle for jumpers like Kobe did. He couldn't be any worse than Kobe was so this is easy.

haha, I like how you take Kobe's worst series and compare it to Wade's best series without taking in consideration the caliber of defense in the teams they faced. There is no basis on usingWade's performance against the Mavs and saying he would have same success against the Celtics.

Kobe was worse against the Pistons in the finals, once again only shooting jumpers. Wade tore up that Pistons team. And using how Wade did this year against the C's makes no sense b/c he was injured and Wade playing injured can't be the relentless attacker that allowed him to dominate. He was also playing with the D-League All-stars, not nearly the supporting cast Kobe had.

[microfib4thewin]

I'm not going to deny that Kobe had an awful series, but to say Wade is better because he beat the Mavs is not evidence that he will do the same against the Cs. Lebron with his size couldn't find any open lanes, so I'm interested to know how Wade could do something Lebron couldn't with a crappier jumpshot to boot.

[Chessboxer]

I'm not going to deny that Kobe had an awful series, but to say Wade is better because he beat the Mavs is not evidence that he will do the same against the Cs. Lebron with his size couldn't find any open lanes, so I'm interested to know how Wade could do something Lebron couldn't with a crappier jumpshot to boot.

Lebron's size doesn't give him an advantage driving in comparison to Wade IMO. Actually Wade's size gives him an advantage because he exploits holes/cracks in the defense easier. Watch how easily a peak Wade splits the middle of double teams in isolation or off of the pick and roll. Lebrons size is actually a hindrance in those situations, especially considering the fact a peak Wade is also quicker in the half court set than Lebron is.

Re: the Celtics series I think the Lakers still wouldn't win but I think Wade makes the series more competitve and pushes it to a game seven. The Celtics did have single coverage on Bryant a lot of the time and closed of the lane when he penetrated. However Wade has never had problems with long wing players a la Prince like bryant. Bryant had a lot of trouble with Prince a guy Wade has torched 05 and 06, but has trouble with the likes of Hinrich or Lindsey Hunter, guys smaller than him.

I think Wade would have no problems with Celtics first line of defense (Pierce, Allen, Posey), but Celtics would pack the lane. However Wade would put more pressure on the defense, get to the line, and work more open shots for his teammates off of the drive and kick. Better ball movement, and more second chance opportunities for the Lakers, in short the offense would run much better considering the fact Wade IMO is a better playmaker. Plus I don't see him letting his team squander a 24 point lead in the NBA Finals.

However I still think Wade can't solve the Lakers other problems which is why they would still loose. The Lakers were soft, not very good defensively and got pushed around on the glass, among other things.

[Wade2k6]

What do you have to say when Wade lit the '06 Pistons up for over 30 ppg on over 60% shooting? I guess that was a fluke right? guess so..

If you can't accept the bad things with the good things their are just no arguements to have with some you fans. Kobe obviously got outplayed by Boston, and the '06 finals Wade outperformed '08 Kobe by a lot. Some of you Kobe fans jump on every oppurtunity to compare Kobe to Jordan when he scores 50+ points or something, but when something bad happens you blame everybody else except Kobe. Not all Kobe fans, but alot.

This is directed towards KoolDude and some of the other Laker fans that have commented in this thread.

No one said Wade's performance against the Pistons was an aberration; he's obviously a very good player. So is Lebron. In 06 and 07. And look at what Boston did to Lebron in their series, Lebron had 2 games out of 7 that can be considered "good" by any decent standard. And what does an 06 Wade do better than an 08 Lebron. Is there really any argument that an 06 Wade is better than an 08 Lebron? Not to mention that Wade's team was superior to Lebron's too.

Ok, I'll accept the good things: Wade is a better slasher and passer. So even with the dominant team defense the Celtics used, he would still be able to create more for his teammates than Kobe did. Except you ignore the fact that Kobe did that on times and his teammates missed opened shots. Here's the bad: Wade is an inferior defender and jumpshooter than Kobe. That means there's NO ONE on the Lakers that can keep up with Pierce and Wade would be a Lebron v2 against the Celtics. That means Wade would have to take jumpshots just like Lebron had to, just like Kobe had to, because that's all they got. If you want to say an 06 Wade is on another level than Lebron and Kobe now, that be my guest Wade2k6.

haha, I like how you take Kobe's worst series and compare it to Wade's best series without taking in consideration the caliber of defense in the teams they faced. There is no basis on usingWade's performance against the Mavs and saying he would have same success against the Celtics. Different teams, different situations. But it's apparently that Wade would likely replicate Lebron's performance since they are slashers, except Lebron is a better defender, rebounder, passer, and possibly jumpshooter too.

And I'm not a Lakers fan; I just not naive enough to believe that a player like Wade on Lebron/Kobe's level can beat the Celtics by themselves which is essentially what they had to do. (moreso Lebron than Kobe). I certainly don't think using Wade's performance against Dallas defense is in any way relevant when the Celtics are on another level defensively.

'06 Wade was as/if not more dominate in the playoffs then LeBron was. Not saying Wade was a better overall player, but Wade played at a historic level throughout that finals series. Who cares if Wade's team is superior to LeBrons, what does that have to do with this conversation? His second leading scorer throughout the finals was Antoine Walker putting up 12-13 a game, WOW, big deal.

And I'm not talking about good things/ bad things in their games. I'm talking about good things/bad things taht happen throughout their careers. Example: a bad thing was this previous series vs. the Celtics. A good thing was his MVP season this year... Get it? I wasn't comparing their games, but just acknowledging the fact that you have to accept the good with the bad, and kobe had a BAD series for his standards. And are you trying to deny the fact that Wade played on a different level then Kobe/LeBron, because that isn't a real smart argument to get into, because Wade played at a historical level.

I'm comparing Kobe's worst series (arguable, 2004 pistons) against Wade's best series becuase that's what this thread is about. It isn't Kobe's best series vs. Wades best series, it is THIS YEARS finals with Kobe and substitute Wade's 2006 performance in his place. If i were really trying to compare them at their best I wouldn't choose one of Kobe's worst performances, I would choose one of his best. Pretty simple.

[Kobay]

im sure any wing player would do good against boston if they got on their knees and begged them to stop crowding the paint and beg the refs to call for illegal defense. But then again the zeebras love wade.

[Wade2k6]

^^ I hope that isn't the best argument that can be made. Hopefully not at least....

[microfib4thewin]

Speed is really not a factor when it comes to Celtics defense. As long as they don't need to pay too much attention to the post they can rotate quickly enough to stifle any dribble penetration. Shaq would have a better time than Gasol did, but his form in 06 has already declined to the point where he can't produce in the low post consistently. If you want to talk about the 06 Wade being on the Laker team, then I don't see how he would fare any better. His devil first-step and superior passing ability may make him harder to stop, but it wouldn't make any difference against the league best defense. Wade would still need to deal with the team's inferior defense and rebounding, and he's a pretty average on the ball defender so he can't guard Pierce and hope it can slow him down.

[dingclancy]

Kobe can get in the lane but then he was called for a bunch of charges, which are all legit. (If Kobe appeared to be more aggressive he would have gotten to the line a lot and we could have a Wade 2.0... Kobe choked.)

Lebron got to the line 13 times because he knew he HAD to drive. The kid has no jumper to speak of so he has nothing to lose by putting his head down and drive. Wade/Lebron will drive because it is their only option.
I felt that Kobe should also believe that he has no jumper and just drive because that will open up things for him, then let the jumper flow.