Duncan/KG/and Malone, Moses Malone

[penbeast0]

Moses played a lot of PF in his career next to the likes of Jim Eakins, Caldwell Jones, Bill Paultz, and Clemon Johnson. If you consider him as a PF and all of them playing next to a decent shotblocking center who can score as well, how would he stack up on the all-time PF charts next to Duncan and Garnett?

[shawngoat23]

Moses is the best player of the bunch. I'm not sure he's the best PF, but I voted for him anyway under the assumption that he'd still be the stud he were if he played PF for his entire career.

[ronnymac2]

Well, I've gradually started to believe that Tim Duncan is a center that is versatile enough to play power foward. Even as a center though, I think he's clearly better than Moses. No matter what position they are in, Duncan over Moses.

I started a thread yesterday between the sixers all-time froncourt and celtics all-time frontcourt and wanted to put Moses next to Wilt at the 4, but I always thought of Moses as a center, so decided to put Barkley there instead lol.

Moses vs. KG? hmmm.... Well first off, I think overall that Karl Malone is the best pure power foward ever. If you wanted to consider Moses a power foward, then he'd def be in that group with Karl and KG, and actually Barkley, too. I'd still take KG over Moses, but it's more personal opinion. I like Kg's defense A LOT more than Moses' d. Rebounding, I really don't think there's that much of a difference, though Malone gets an edge there. Overall offense, to be honest, I'll take KG because of his versatility and passing (I'll take Moses for scoring, mainly because he gets to the foul line a lot more). Garnett's much more of a 2 way player, and Malone's scoring advantage just doesn't make up for that with me.

I'll take Karl Malone over Moses if I had to choose, too. Karl's one of the best man post defenders I've ever seen. However, since Moses gets to play the 4 in this comparison, I can see him using his physicality to an advantage over other 4's, and thus being a better defender than he was. Thing is, even as a power foward, Moses isn't going to be changing his style on offense. And I like Karl on offense over Moses, too.

I will say that I do think Moses Malone is a bit overrated. I do credit him for being great on my all time list though...he's number 13 (I REALLY take his accomplishments into account, which is surprising, because I don't usually move people ahead of other players too much based on accomplishments if I don't think they are better than the other players), ahead of everyone I've mentioned except for Duncan. Karl's at number 14.

My gripe with Moses and with this comparison is that Duncan and Garnett don't need a shotblocking, efficient scoring center along side them because they themselves are great 2-way players. Moses is a damn good scorer and rebounder. To me, he wouldn't really improve his standing if he played power foward because he's still not doing what KG and Duncan do overall.

[Warspite]

Well, I've gradually started to believe that Tim Duncan is a center that is versatile enough to play power foward. Even as a center though, I think he's clearly better than Moses. No matter what position they are in, Duncan over Moses.

I started a thread yesterday between the sixers all-time froncourt and celtics all-time frontcourt and wanted to put Moses next to Wilt at the 4, but I always thought of Moses as a center, so decided to put Barkley there instead lol.

Moses vs. KG? hmmm.... Well first off, I think overall that Karl Malone is the best pure power foward ever. If you wanted to consider Moses a power foward, then he'd def be in that group with Karl and KG, and actually Barkley, too. I'd still take KG over Moses, but it's more personal opinion. I like Kg's defense A LOT more than Moses' d. Rebounding, I really don't think there's that much of a difference, though Malone gets an edge there. Overall offense, to be honest, I'll take KG because of his versatility and passing (I'll take Moses for scoring, mainly because he gets to the foul line a lot more). Garnett's much more of a 2 way player, and Malone's scoring advantage just doesn't make up for that with me.

I'll take Karl Malone over Moses if I had to choose, too. Karl's one of the best man post defenders I've ever seen. However, since Moses gets to play the 4 in this comparison, I can see him using his physicality to an advantage over other 4's, and thus being a better defender than he was. Thing is, even as a power foward, Moses isn't going to be changing his style on offense. And I like Karl on offense over Moses, too.

I will say that I do think Moses Malone is a bit overrated. I do credit him for being great on my all time list though...he's number 13 (I REALLY take his accomplishments into account, which is surprising, because I don't usually move people ahead of other players too much based on accomplishments if I don't think they are better than the other players), ahead of everyone I've mentioned except for Duncan. Karl's at number 14.

My gripe with Moses and with this comparison is that Duncan and Garnett don't need a shotblocking, efficient scoring center along side them because they themselves are great 2-way players. Moses is a damn good scorer and rebounder. To me, he wouldn't really improve his standing if he played power foward because he's still not doing what KG and Duncan do overall.

For Duncan/KG to score 31ppg and get 15rpg they would have to do the following

1. play many more mins
2. Play alot harder
3. Contest fewer shots
4. Foul much less
5. be able to defeat more double teams.
6. Shoot and make more FTs

The simple fact is that to be the player Moses was TD and KG would have to radicaly change there games and improve there conditioning/strength. I just truely believe the ability to score 30ppg and lead the NBA in rpg is completely underrated. I cant take KG over Moses becasue Moses played on worse teams with lesser supporting casts and beat better teams and had much more success. Moses never played with a player as good as Marbury or Szerbiack untill he came to philly and played with DrJ, Cheeks and Jones. He however had already won the WCF and won 2 MVPs.

[HarlemHeat37]

I agree that Moses Malone was a beast in his prime, but he's overrated IMO..it's definitely impressive to put up huge numbers like that, but a lot is being ignored..while I don't think Duncan or Garnett could be the scorers that Malone was, they obviously play a different role than he does..they're more versatile players that aren't relied on as much to be dominant scorers..neither guy has ever been asked to be a dominant scorer..rebounding goes to Malone as well, but neither Duncan or Garnett is weak in that part of the game..

on the other side, I'd easily take Duncan and Garnett defensively..there's no argument there IMO..same goes for passing the ball and creating for teammates..they're much better teammates and leaders as well IMO..

while you mention Malone doing more than KG with inferior teammates, he was also part of a few teams that underachieved in the playoffs..some of them as the MVP, and some heavily underachieving..something he would have been crucified for by today's media..

[drza]

For Duncan/KG to score 31ppg and get 15rpg they would have to do the following

1. play many more mins
2. Play alot harder
3. Contest fewer shots
4. Foul much less
5. be able to defeat more double teams.
6. Shoot and make more FTs

The simple fact is that to be the player Moses was TD and KG would have to radicaly change there games and improve there conditioning/strength. I just truely believe the ability to score 30ppg and lead the NBA in rpg is completely underrated.

I don't think that you can just look at pure points or rebounds per game without adjusting for the fact that it was a different era. In 1981-82, when Malone posted 31/15, the games were a lot higher-scoring and played at a higher pace than in the 2000s. Malone in that season led the NBA in total rebounds and was second in total points. IMO, that is analogous to Duncan leading the league in rebounds and being second in total points in 2001-02 or KG leading the league in both rebounds and total points in 03-04. While Duncan's and KG's stat-lines might have read 26/13 and 24/14 in those years, respectively, when the differences in how the game is played now vs. then are factored in I believe them to be similar achievements.

I cant take KG over Moses becasue Moses played on worse teams with lesser supporting casts and beat better teams and had much more success. Moses never played with a player as good as Marbury or Szerbiack untill he came to philly and played with DrJ, Cheeks and Jones. He however had already won the WCF and won 2 MVPs.

I can't speak from experience on having watched much of Calvin Murphy or Rudy T in the 70s, but I can say that I've seen a LOT of Wally Szczerbiak. I'd be hard pressed to believe that Wally was better than either of them. I have a similar skepticism that Wally was even better than declined former stars like Rick Barry or Elvin Hayes when Mo played with them. Honestly, I just don't think Wally was ever that good. Marbury isn't really a fair comp, since KG was an NBA baby when he played with him. Counting Marbury for KG would be like counting guys like Maurice Lucas and Marvin Barnes (who Mo played with at age 20 in the ABA) for Malone. You could do it for both of them I guess, but it doesn't really give any indication of what either Mo or KG were like in their prime. And to look at your comparison from another angle, KG has STILL never played with anyone as good as Dr. J and he already has a championship, an MVP, and a DPoY. I just don't see a big advantage for Malone using this particular argument.

[penbeast0]

With all due respect, Wally was similar to Rudy T . . . considering position. Both were jump shooting weak defensive, efficient scorers. Rudy played 4-3, Wally 3-2, Rudy was the better rebounder and defender, Wally was the more efficient scorer with better shooting range. They were roughly the same level of player except that Rudy really only had one season as a good player with Moses due to injuries and age.

Murphy would be more the equivalent of Sam Cassell. And when Moses led that Houston team to the finals, the second best player was probably Robert Reid who didn't produce much in stats but was a 6-7 defense minded PG/SF along the lines of a Nate McMillan. Not much of a team without Moses, they went from 46 wins to 14.

[drza]

With all due respect, Wally was similar to Rudy T . . . considering position. Both were jump shooting weak defensive, efficient scorers. Rudy played 4-3, Wally 3-2, Rudy was the better rebounder and defender, Wally was the more efficient scorer with better shooting range. They were roughly the same level of player except that Rudy really only had one season as a good player with Moses due to injuries and age.

Murphy would be more the equivalent of Sam Cassell. And when Moses led that Houston team to the finals, the second best player was probably Robert Reid who didn't produce much in stats but was a 6-7 defense minded PG/SF along the lines of a Nate McMillan. Not much of a team without Moses, they went from 46 wins to 14.

Thank you for the comps. I actually remember Robert Reid, I just didn't put him on the list because as you said he didn't produce a lot using traditional stats and that time period was early enough in my basketball-watching life that I can't rely on my own memories to back up what the box scores say.