Clyde Frazier wrote:.
mischievous wrote:.
Quoting you two because Clyde is one poster who's actually cast a ballot for Melo, and mischievous because he asked the question about the separation between Melo and Nique........I had this long post mostly made up when my computer just spontaneously shut down and it was unable to recover the chrome session.
FFFFFUUUUUUUU.............I'm sorry, I just don't have the time or stamina to put it all back together tonight (and much of it has been covered already). wrt to Melo vs. Nique, it boiled down to a few things:
1) Nique having a clear statistical edge in the rs (Melo does have the edge in ps, though it's a somewhat lacking sample size----relative to other all-time greats----for both, and neither has a glowing ps resume).
2) fwiw, Nique holds the edge in both MVP shares and a small edge in awards/honors.
3) Melo often looks questionable in terms of impact: he mostly looks fairly good in terms of WOWY studies, though it's very hit or miss (if incorporate before/after studies). On/off, outside of a couple seasons, is mostly underwhelming for a star of his repute and box-based metrics. And RAPM does not rate him well at all (see my above vote post as I showed Tony Parker RAPM vs other relevant individuals---including Melo, who was a clear last among those listed).
Nique meanwhile has consistently positive WOWY studies and to his credit led multiple
elite offenses with primary supporting casts of Doc Rivers, Randy Whitman, Cliff Levingston, Tree Rollins, etc.
Scouting (aka "How did this happen?")
pandrade83 mentioned already that Melo kinda holds the ball on the perimeter or mid-range a lot. Not quite as much as Dantley, perhaps, but kind of a lot. And unlike with someone like Lebron or Harden (who do hold the ball a lot), the teammates kinda stop moving because there's no real expectation that Melo is going to find them if they keep moving.
Nique wasn't a playmaker either, but he wasn't often stationary in this manner. He generally attacked more or less immediately, rather than allow defenders (and defenses in general) to get set.
Melo also takes far too many mid-range shots (from '06-'17, 51.5% of all his attempts came between 3-23 feet [28.1% from 16-23 feet]); he's a good shooter in these ranges, but whereas many other premiere scorers have recognized that these are simply not high% shots [and thus shouldn't be the main staple of their attack], Melo has made them the bulk of his attack, and often doesn't even try to get to the rim. He'll frequently stand there in triple-threat position, maybe jab-step, take one dribble and pull-up for contested 15-22 footers; he does this.....kind of a lot.
Nique, in addition to attacking quickly, was---in my impression---more often attacking the paint area. Not that he always to the rim or line (his FTr is actually marginally less than Melo's), but he'd get a lot of shots like one dribble from the elbow, spin move the other direction and put up a short-range bank-shot. These types of attacks to the paint area forced rotations, getting defenders out of position, potentially increasing the likelihood of offensive rebounds even when he missed the shot (those Hawks teams were almost exclusively elite in OREB% during Nique's prime, and fell to mediocre after he left). Mid-range shots, by comparison, generally carry a lower potential for offensive rebound.
On the subject of offensive rebounding, Nique was also a significantly better offensive rebounding forward compared to Melo. Additionally, Nique had a marginally lower turnover rate, even with an eye on how much playmaking they did.
And defensively, while Nique was not good, I don't think he was worse than Carmelo Anthony. It's in these ways that I think he was more impactful (or just generally "better", if you prefer) than Carmelo Anthony.
fwiw, the questionable offensive impact (possibly due to my observations noted above) combined with the poor defense is why I think there are at least a handful of better candidates than Melo still on the table.
"The fact that a proposition is absurd has never hindered those who wish to believe it." -Edward Rutherfurd
"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire
