James Harden thread (2017-18)

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Re: James Harden thread (2017-18) 

Post#221 » by lavta » Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:18 am

Was a pretty good microcosm of why this season is Harden's peak. His best off the dribble shooting season by a clear margin. This level of off the dribble shooting adds up to the other almost always there elements of his creation and it is his best season. That off the dribble shooting allows a complete management of the game which I don't think was there before especially in the playoffs.

Even though he travels in some of his stepbacks, the ones with the splitting of the feet instead of the hop after the initial back step, they just don't call that. So that type of deceleration + off the dribble shooting + his manipulative timing on the PnR + Capela's excellent screens combination is just so hard to stop. Great defensive anchors would help, KAT isn't one. He simply kept even a great perimeter defender in Butler where he wants with great jailing, manipulation of the timing with different moves (snakes/hesitation) so that perimeter defender would come to side he wants. Any non-Butler & non-Wiggins (yes, Wiggins) perimeter defender from Timberwolves completely dying at any screen last night didn't help Towns but he's still bad. Has no idea how rim protection works even when in position. Sometimes the PnR ball handler just misses the layup/floater because KAT is sort of there as a big body and gets a hand up even if hand is in the wrong place and they just miss. His verticality is weird, even when he tries to get vertical, he just has a hunch and doesn't seem to have adequate core strength. So, KAT is a perfect defensive anchor for Harden in this series. I think Butler has room to be better at guarding him. Even though I thought Jimmy did a pretty good job already.

His passing is not particularly improvisationally creative, but their offensive system already allows sufficient creation within its borders and he literally just makes every read and executes those passes really well inside those borders. His game control is always existent but really shines against teams like Minny without any particular offensive system. Against those teams, he just is able to turn it up for a sequence and puts pressure on the opposing defense for 4-5 minutes worth of possessions.

A very classic '18 Harden game honestly, didn't see one new thing. Great game 1.

His defense has some significant negative impact. Sometimes Capela really picks up his mistakes but he still costs a considerable amount of points.
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Re: James Harden thread (2017-18) 

Post#222 » by Dr Spaceman » Thu Apr 19, 2018 3:11 am

This is a weird game for him. It’s not just that he’s missing shots, but he isn’t going anywhere with his dribbles. He looks like he doesn’t want to drive into the lane. There’s patience and then there’s passivity.

Weird. I wish he would put together two great games in a row, but looks like he can get by with an easy win even with his C- game tonight.
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Re: James Harden thread (2017-18) 

Post#223 » by K_chile22 » Thu Apr 19, 2018 3:19 am

Yeah, his drives have been.... unsuccessful to say the least.

But man, four or five of these threes have been just a touch off. an inch too strong, an inch to the left
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Re: James Harden thread (2017-18) 

Post#224 » by MO12msu » Thu Apr 19, 2018 3:38 am

I'd say he became tentative driving to the basket after that unsuccessful 1st quarter where he got blocked a couple of times or didn't get a foul call that he was suspecting.

For the most part his jumper looks fine, just one of those off days shooting from that perspective.
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Re: James Harden thread (2017-18) 

Post#225 » by K_chile22 » Thu Apr 19, 2018 3:39 am

once the lead ballooned he started chucking trying to get his groove, just can't get a three to go down. Defense way better than game one
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Re: James Harden thread (2017-18) 

Post#226 » by NbaAllDay » Thu Apr 19, 2018 3:43 am

Games like this show how strong this team really is. I know its only the Twolves per say but harden is having an off game and they still blown them out of the water.

I'm excited for a Houston v GSW WCF.
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Re: James Harden thread (2017-18) 

Post#227 » by JordansBulls » Thu Apr 19, 2018 3:48 am

NbaAllDay wrote:Games like this show how strong this team really is. I know its only the Twolves per say but harden is having an off game and they still blown them out of the water.

I'm excited for a Houston v GSW WCF.

Well imagine him having this game in game 1.
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Re: James Harden thread (2017-18) 

Post#228 » by Dr Spaceman » Thu Apr 19, 2018 3:53 am

His handle looks sharp, his defense has been good, just a really weirdly poor shooting game. Happens.

That said he shouldn’t be finishing this game right now. I understand he’s going to try to get in a shooting groove but this is kind of ridiculous. He shouldn’t have seen the floor in the fourth q of a 30 Point blowout.
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Re: James Harden thread (2017-18) 

Post#229 » by K_chile22 » Thu Apr 19, 2018 3:54 am

Dr Spaceman wrote:His handle looks sharp, his defense has been good, just a really weirdly poor shooting game. Happens.

That said he shouldn’t be finishing this game right now. I understand he’s going to try to get in a shooting groove but this is kind of ridiculous. He shouldn’t have seen the floor in the fourth q of a 30 Point blowout.

Yeah, hopefully he's outta there by 4 :00 at the latest. He'll probably be fighting with MDA to stay in and find his shot tho
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Re: James Harden thread (2017-18) 

Post#230 » by thekdog34 » Thu Apr 19, 2018 6:01 am

Harden shot 32% from 3 post-All-Star break. (22 games). So his shot has been a bit inconsistent since then.
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Re: James Harden thread (2017-18) 

Post#231 » by G35 » Thu Apr 19, 2018 6:36 am

MO12msu wrote:I'd say he became tentative driving to the basket after that unsuccessful 1st quarter where he got blocked a couple of times or didn't get a foul call that he was suspecting.

For the most part his jumper looks fine, just one of those off days shooting from that perspective.



Harden is a downhill player, when he get a shot to go down or gets to the rim/FT line and gets in a rhythm there aren't many players better than him. That sounds like common sense but it easy to fall out of a rhythm.

If he gets his shot blocked or he can't get to the rim...if he misses a couple step back three's...if his ball handling is off then he goes the other way and imo, the mental part starts getting to him. I think with CP3 its more rare for that to happen because Chris is able to get the team into good sets. When the offense was all on Harden every play, I think those situations where he got out of sync happened more often.

This is where a more varied attack...a mid range...or post up might get him back on track but not having variety of ways to attack the basket means these type of games will happen imo......
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Re: James Harden thread (2017-18) 

Post#232 » by NO-KG-AI » Thu Apr 19, 2018 6:45 am

He’s honestly too talented offensively to not stay aggressive and trying to create, even if it’s as a passer.


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Re: James Harden thread (2017-18) 

Post#233 » by Kabookalu » Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:04 am

The Wolves played him well in game 2, and Jimmy Butler did a great job of not biting on his jab steps and stayed in front of him well. I'd have to look at the footage again but it seemed like they had a defender shading Harden from behind to sandwich him for a block; always felt like there were two Wolves players both behind and in front of him.
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Re: James Harden thread (2017-18) 

Post#234 » by K_chile22 » Sun Apr 22, 2018 1:54 am

Disgusting effort by everyone but the two stars. They weren't even trying. Did they expect to just be carried on both ends? Baffling.
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Re: James Harden thread (2017-18) 

Post#235 » by thekdog34 » Sun Apr 22, 2018 2:52 am

K_chile22 wrote:Disgusting effort by everyone but the two stars. They weren't even trying. Did they expect to just be carried on both ends? Baffling.


I can't give Harden a pass on this one. His playoff averages are once again below his season averages. Negative on/off.

One time he tried to get a steal after a missed shot then KAT of all people beat him down the court.

His desire to move as slow as possible doesn't work in the playoffs.
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Re: James Harden thread (2017-18) 

Post#236 » by JordansBulls » Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:00 am

thekdog34 wrote:
K_chile22 wrote:Disgusting effort by everyone but the two stars. They weren't even trying. Did they expect to just be carried on both ends? Baffling.


I can't give Harden a pass on this one. His playoff averages are once again below his season averages. Negative on/off.

One time he tried to get a steal after a missed shot then KAT of all people beat him down the court.

His desire to move as slow as possible doesn't work in the playoffs.

Jimmy Butler is on him, that is what happens. Jimmy also makes Lebron shoot bad percentages as well for a series.
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Re: RE: Re: James Harden thread (2017-18) 

Post#237 » by K_chile22 » Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:09 am

thekdog34 wrote:
K_chile22 wrote:Disgusting effort by everyone but the two stars. They weren't even trying. Did they expect to just be carried on both ends? Baffling.


I can't give Harden a pass on this one. His playoff averages are once again below his season averages. Negative on/off.

One time he tried to get a steal after a missed shot then KAT of all people beat him down the court.

His desire to move as slow as possible doesn't work in the playoffs.

He had the team high plus minus, 29 on 21 shots, 7 assist and rebounds. I don't see how he's to blame. His numbers are bad because he had a bad shooting game 2 and that's 1/3 of the sample.

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Re: James Harden thread (2017-18) 

Post#238 » by Krodis » Sun Apr 22, 2018 1:28 pm

I think he played okay in Game 3. Not great, but not bad. They lost mostly because the Wolves couldn't miss.

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Re: James Harden thread (2017-18) 

Post#239 » by ronnymac2 » Sun Apr 22, 2018 4:47 pm

I don't see how Harden should be getting blame. He's playing great, limiting turnovers (HOU"s overall TOV% in the series is amazing) being the highest USG%/MPG player on the team. His individual offensive efficiency is fine.

The issue is Ariza, Tucker, and Gordon not hitting shots being put on a silver platter for them. All 3 are limiting their turnovers, but they simply aren't hitting shots. Terrible shooting so far from all three. Gerald Green (0 TOVs through 3 games) and Capela (dominant rebounding, efficiency, defense on KAT) have played well.

CP3 is the star who hasn't played great. Foul machine, lost like a coward last night and should have really been Tech'd up after getting his sixth foul (Harden had to calm him down), just 31 MPG, not creating high-percentage opportunities for guys after Harden has driven and placed the defense into chaos. Defense hasn't been great either. How is a bum like Jeff Teague having a good offensive series?

That said, I don't know why all the gloom and doom. HOU is still up 2-1, retains HCA, and is facing a very talented team in MIN.
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Re: James Harden thread (2017-18) 

Post#240 » by CodeBreaker » Mon Apr 23, 2018 5:39 am

We're seeing again the Playoffs Harden that we always knew.

Game 1 was fluke. Thought it was still the regular season so he was beastin
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