'17-'18 POY discussion

[microfib4thewin]

The defense is of course where the largest confusion comes, those who think he's played very well (myself) and those who want to claim it has been completely crap. Though even his offense is polorizing as some can't see that there's more to what and why he's doing it on offense than just if the jump shots fall. That however is less surprising to see disagreements on.

If the Warriors won those last two games would anyone even argue that Harden played good defense or that his mediocre offensive numbers actually have deeper meaning? If someone does see Harden as playing at an elite level at both ends of the floor I don't think it's wrong to say that Harden is equal or even better than Lebron, but I have a feeling that people are getting swayed by games that were decided in the final seconds.

[K_chile22]

Just about everyone besides you is watching LeBron have a GOAT level playoffs.

OK, I'm pretty sure lebron isn't on the rockets or warriors. I must REALLY watching the wrong games, lol

Haven’t kept up with the thread as much as some what are your disagreements, is it about hardens defense?

Hardens defense is amplified because the poor possessions he has look REAL bad so people kinda take that for what’s he’s like all the time.

I also think it's confirmation bias. When CP blows a switch, which he did a few times or Trevor doesn't get back in transition, no one really notices, and if they do it's "oh yeah it happens" but when you have a reputation as a bad defender, every play you mess up is blown up in people's heads because it's what they expect

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[dhsilv2]

The defense is of course where the largest confusion comes, those who think he's played very well (myself) and those who want to claim it has been completely crap. Though even his offense is polorizing as some can't see that there's more to what and why he's doing it on offense than just if the jump shots fall. That however is less surprising to see disagreements on.

If the Warriors won those last two games would anyone even argue that Harden played good defense or that his mediocre offensive numbers actually have deeper meaning? If someone does see Harden as playing at an elite level at both ends of the floor I don't think it's wrong to say that Harden is equal or even better than Lebron, but I have a feeling that people are getting swayed by games that were decided in the final seconds.

The very thread you're in shows people posting comments on both in real time during the game. Go read what people were saying in game..

[Dupp]

OK, I'm pretty sure lebron isn't on the rockets or warriors. I must REALLY watching the wrong games, lol

Haven’t kept up with the thread as much as some what are your disagreements, is it about hardens defense?

Hardens defense is amplified because the poor possessions he has look REAL bad so people kinda take that for what’s he’s like all the time.

I also think it's confirmation bias. When CP blows a switch, which he did a few times or Trevor doesn't get back in transition, no one really notices, and if they do it's "oh yeah it happens" but when you have a reputation as a bad defender, every play you mess up is blown up in people's heads because it's what they expect

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Probably for some. For me I see Paul busting his ass against durant and I can live with his mistakes as he’s elite 80% of the time. Paul’s normal is a much higher standard. Doesn’t mean hardens mistakes make him overall bad but his defensive game can probably afford them less.

[Krodis]

Sure his on ball effort has been better but he still completely zones out when off the ball and just stands in the lane while his man keeps moving for a 3. Pretty much every open shot Klay has gotten can be traced back to a brain fart by Harden.

Weird, because I just went and watched every shot attempt Klay took in Game 5 and not one of them is as you describe. He drives past Harden once for a layup where the help isn't there, and there's like three of his attempts where the blame is somewhat hard to pin down because they're switching miscommunications. One of those sort of looks like what you're talking about, but from what I can tell that play is actually Tucker's fault. The other like 10 open shots Klay got had nothing to do with Harden whatsoever.

[MO12msu]

Sure his on ball effort has been better but he still completely zones out when off the ball and just stands in the lane while his man keeps moving for a 3. Pretty much every open shot Klay has gotten can be traced back to a brain fart by Harden.

Weird, because I just went and watched every shot attempt Klay took in Game 5 and not one of them is as you describe. He drives past Harden once for a layup where the help isn't there, and there's like three of his attempts where the blame is somewhat hard to pin down because they're switching miscommunications. One of those sort of looks like what you're talking about, but from what I can tell that play is actually Tucker's fault. The other like 10 open shots Klay got had nothing to do with Harden whatsoever.

Just watched Klay's field goal attempts and would generally agree with your synopsis on game 5. "Pretty much every open shot" was definitely hyperbole on my part.

However, I wasn't just referring to game 5. In general Harden's off ball awareness just isn't there like it is for others and I still feel like I've seen plenty of instances of him falling asleep. That forces other players to rotate over and cover for his mistakes. At least that's what I've been seeing throughout this series.

[Krodis]

In general Harden's off ball awareness just isn't there like it is for others and I still feel like I've seen plenty of instances of him falling asleep. That forces other players to rotate over and cover for his mistakes. At least that's what I've been seeing throughout this series.

Seems like it would be hard to distinguish that from their normal switching defense.

[MisterHibachi]

5 turnovers on Harden this quarter. Really executing that offensive game plan.

[clyde21]

That was a good hard foul by Tucker. No flagrant.

[MisterHibachi]

Warriors defense has been atrocious.

[Dr Spaceman]

5 turnovers on Harden this quarter. Really executing that offensive game plan.

Without Paul they’re playing way more lose. I thought it would go this way pre-game. Expect minutes for Gerald Green and Ryan Anderson and lots of early 3s. They need a way more aggressive game offensively tonight.

[Basileus777]

Houston's screen and roll game is working for the first time this series.

[MisterHibachi]

Damn, Houston this is crazy.

Also, this is an elimination game, why is Kerr sitting 3 of his best 4 players at the same time. Curry/Dray/KD should all be going for 40 min plus.

[ronnymac2]

Damn, Houston this is crazy.

Also, this is an elimination game, why is Kerr sitting 3 of his best 4 players at the same time. Curry/Dray/KD should all be going for 40 min plus.

Curry and Durant are too mentally fragile to break from their routine.

Meanwhile HOU is balling out of control with their backs against the wall on the road. Let's do this baby!

[Basileus777]

39 points in this quarter. And that's with a bunch of awful turnovers. Houston's shredding this defense.

[ShotCreator]

Durant wasn't even a top 10 player this year. I went on record with that months ago. This doesn't surprise me.

[Ambrose]

Durant has been abysmal

[Dr Spaceman]

Gen Board: Rockets better without Chris Paul??

[Homer38]

Durant is not a winner,he is soft and lack of heart.

[MisterHibachi]

Does Kerr realize he's down 3-2 and not up 3-2? Running that lineup for extended possessions in an elimination game is criminal, especially with the big a deficit. When is he expecting to empty the tank?