RealGM All-Time Greatest NBA/ABA Franchises Ranking - #14

[trex_8063]

1. Minneapolis/Los Angeles Lakers
2. Boston Celtics
3. Dallas Chaparrals, San Antonio Spurs
4. Chicago Bulls
5. Syracuse Nationals/Philadelphia 76ers
6. Philly/SF/Golden State Warriors
7. Miami Heat
8. Fort Wayne/Detroit Pistons
9. Houston Rockets
10. New York Knicks
11. Indiana Pacers
12. Seattle Supersonics/OKC Thunder
13. Portland Trailblazers

.....

26. Vancouver/Memphis Grizzlies
27. New Orleans Hornets/Pelicans
28. Charlotte Bobcats/Hornets
29. Buffalo Braves/(San Diego)/Los Angeles Clippers
30. Minnesota Timberwolves

[penbeast0]

Again voting UTAH JAZZ; they were horrible in New Orleans but despite playing in Utah (one of the least attractive destinations for many free agents), they have been reasonably competitive since with great teams during the Stockton/Malone era, good one following with Deron Williams and Carlos Boozer, and fun ones with Adrian Dantley and Frank Layden though the two didn't get along.

[Fadeaway_J]

I'll go New Orleans/Utah Jazz as well. After a rough start to NBA life, they've only had three truly noncompetitive teams in the ensuing 37 years. Not too many title contending teams (none outside of the Stockton-Malone era) but as a small market team playing in an unattractive free agent destination that's not a major demerit, especially when they were rarely bad enough to have a chance at drafting a generational talent.

[trex_8063]

rs Win%
Jazz - .539
Suns - .529
Bucks - .515
Nuggets - .501 (.490 in NBA, .555 in ABA)
Mavericks - .499
Hawks - .495
Cavs - .465

% of Seasons in the Playoffs
Hawks - .657
Nuggets - .654 (.581 in NBA, 1.000 in ABA)
Jazz - .622
Bucks - .608
Suns - .569
Mavericks - .538
Cavs - .449

% of Seasons going as far as Conference Finals
Hawks - .186
Suns - .176
Bucks - .176
Cavs - .163
Jazz - .133
Nuggets - .115 (.070 in NBA, .333 in ABA)
Mavericks - .103

Playoff Series Win%
Cavs - .543
Suns - .473
Jazz - .462
Mavericks - .459
Bucks - .400
Hawks - .392
Nuggets - .277 (.286 in NBA, .250 in ABA)

% of Seasons going to Finals
Cavs - .102
Hawks - .057
Mavericks - .051
Jazz - .044
Suns - .039
Bucks - .039
Nuggets - .019 (n/a in NBA, .111 in ABA)

% of Seasons Winning Title
Mavericks - .026
Cavs - .0204
Bucks - .0196
Hawks - .014
Jazz - n/a
Suns - n/a
Nuggets - n/a

[Dr Positivity]

Vote Cleveland Cavaliers

The Jazz have been good more often, but 1 title and 5 finals vs no titles and 2 finals is a pretty significant difference, and the Price era is about as good as the Deron era. I rate the Lebron eras for the Cavs over the Stockton/Malone era, the latter have a higher quantity of good seasons but the Cavs peaked higher. The Bucks are a contender here as well but the Cavs success comes in the modern era, while I consider the Bucks to be pretty unimpressive after the 80s.

[trex_8063]

Looking at the above, I think it's probably mostly between the Jazz and the Cavs.

However, I think there's a dark-horse case for the Hawks, based on historical significance: very good for a number of years during the Pettit era (including FOUR finals appearances and one title), a few more pretty good years circa-1970 built around Zelmo, Hudson, Bridges, etc; few more decent years circa-1980 built around John Drew, Dan Roundfield, Tree Rollins et al, some more good years late 80's/early 90's built around Nique; few good years in the late 90's built around Mookie and Dikembe, several very good years in the 2010's (Horford, Johnson, Korver, Smith or Millsap).......it's really a pretty decent history overall.

[Dr Positivity]

I would consider the Mavs going above the Jazz - the Dirk and Stockton/Malone eras both had 50 W+ seasons forever, except with the Mavs getting one, and the Mavs also had some brief success in the 80s (the 90s however were atrocious)

[Fadeaway_J]

This may be a case where witnessing an era firsthand biases me against a particular franchise. It seems to me like the LeBron era in Cleveland basically amounts to a) winning a bunch of lotteries at very opportune times and b) having one of those lottery picks be a GOAT candidate who was born a stone's throw away. Translating 11 years of LeBron into one title just doesn't do it for me.

[penbeast0]

My criteria is how would it feel to have been a fan from the beginning of it all, and possibly even more than the Clippers, the pre-LeBron Cavs were just a putrid franchise. The LeBron years were great but not great enough for me to have over the Jazz, Suns, or Mavs.

The Hawks are another team where the racist owner puts me off (though at least he was during the 1950s. This is the man who dealt away Bill Russell because he didn't think he could market a black superstar. Imagine a team with Pettit AND Russell (though no Hagan).

[trex_8063]

I would consider the Mavs going above the Jazz - the Dirk and Stockton/Malone eras both had 50 W+ seasons forever, except with the Mavs getting one, and the Mavs also had some brief success in the 80s (the 90s however were atrocious)

I've edited in the Mavs in my above categorical comparisons. They have the one title (to Utah's zero) and thus rank higher in that one, and marginally higher in % of seasons in the finals (same number of finals appearances, but did so in six fewer seasons).......but they otherwise come out behind the Jazz everywhere else.

[Cavsfansince84]

My criteria is how would it feel to have been a fan from the beginning of it all, and possibly even more than the Clippers, the pre-LeBron Cavs were just a putrid franchise. The LeBron years were great but not great enough for me to have over the Jazz, Suns, or Mavs.

The Hawks are another team where the racist owner puts me off (though at least he was during the 1950s. This is the man who dealt away Bill Russell because he didn't think he could market a black superstar. Imagine a team with Pettit AND Russell (though no Hagan).

I'm not sure I follow the bolded part as a Cavs fan since the early 80's. In the late 70's they had some good teams that came within one injury and a game 7 of reaching the finals then were bad for most of the 80's up until 88 but from 88 to 98 they reached the playoffs 10 times with 3 teams winning 54+ games. So prior to LeBron being drafted the Cavs had made 13 playoff appearances while the Clippers during that same time frame only made 6 with no 50 win seasons.

[trex_8063]

My criteria is how would it feel to have been a fan from the beginning of it all, and possibly even more than the Clippers, the pre-LeBron Cavs were just a putrid franchise. The LeBron years were great but not great enough for me to have over the Jazz, Suns, or Mavs.

The Hawks are another team where the racist owner puts me off (though at least he was during the 1950s. This is the man who dealt away Bill Russell because he didn't think he could market a black superstar. Imagine a team with Pettit AND Russell (though no Hagan).

I'm not sure I follow the bolded part as a Cavs fan since the early 80's. In the late 70's they had some good teams that came within one injury and a game 7 of reaching the finals then were bad for most of the 80's up until 88 but from 88 to 98 they reached the playoffs 10 times with 3 teams winning 54+ games. So prior to LeBron being drafted the Cavs had made 13 playoff appearances while the Clippers during that same time frame only made 6 with no 50 win seasons.

I was going to comment on that statement, too. Though small correction: they made the playoffs NINE times from '88-'98 (as far as the CF in '92-->took the Bulls to six games). They were just a small nudge away from being a true contender in '92 and '93 (kinda like the Raptors from '16-'18).

[Cavsfansince84]

I'd vote the Mavs in this particular thread just because of consistent success over the last 20 years, some decent teams in the 80's and the satisfaction that watching the 2011 playoffs would bring compared to the two finals the Jazz reached and lost.

[penbeast0]

Fair enough, the Mark Price years were pretty good too. Sort of like the Webber years for Sacramento. Just not enough for me . . . and I'm not trying to be analytical with this project at all, just who would I rather have been a fan of.

[trex_8063]

Very close between 2-3 teams for me, but I'm gonna go with my gut. Vote: Utah Jazz.
Outstanding consistency of rs success and making the playoffs, combined with one of the best playoff records. Only thing lacking is the title; though if they'd one of '97 or '98, I'd wager we'd have voted them in no worse than 11th (and possibly as high as 8th or 9th).

[trex_8063]

Vote is.....

Jazz - 3
Cavs - 1
Mavs - 1


Calling it for the Jazz. Will get the next up in a moment.