ceiling raiser wrote:Thank you for this data. Does this include a lot of longer range skyhooks? I'm not going to penalize Kareem for shooting from ranges at which jumpers are not incredibly effective. Also, Kareem's lefty hook was less effective, so if you have that breakdown I would be interested.
Based on the figures you provided, it sounds like right-handed skyhooks in and around the post might be a similar efficiency to my estimate.
You made me go deeper than I thought I could
3-6 feet: 71.5%
6-10 feet: 56.8%
10-16 feet: 46.9%
Also, Kareem's left handed skyhook was quite efficient, but he didn't shoot it often. He took it less often than once per game, but he made them at very impressive 70% efficiency. It's because defenders usually tried to take right handed skyhooks away, so left handed skyhook was basically a counter move taken from close to the basket.
I don't disbelieve Kareem would translate. My point is that while within their eras, Hakeem is clearly the inferior scorer, I think Hakeem would translate that much better since this era is tailor made for players like him.
Fair enough, although I'm not sure if Hakeem's game translates as well, given his mediocre passing ability.
Soft doubles I don' t disagree. Do you have any data on how often they were hard doubled for context?
Unfortunately, I don't have them compiled. I have this data in my notes, but it would require a lot of work for me to calculate them. I may do it at some point.
I think we are arguing two different things. Illegal defense was definitely used, but the Rockets didn't use it with nonshooters. Since our sample is 93 and 94 this point is irrelevant though, I meant more late 80s/early 90s when there wasn't spacing (very few teams exploited illegal defense with nonshooters).
Yeah, 1988-92 Rockets certainly weren't great for creating Hakeem enough space. That said, I don't think he had less space than Kareem in 1977 for example.
I wouldn't say he's Dirk, but I think he is comparable to if not superior to other bigs with range. Garnett, Malone seem to be peers, I think?
My shooting data has Hakeem at:
10-16 feet: 43.4% on 7.0 FGA
16-3P feet: 41.5% on 1.9 FGA
It's good, but not on par to KG or Malone.
(1) Shaq has superior gravity, since posting with position he is probably the closest player to a sure thing scoring. Hakeem and Kareem were doubled, but I can't think of a single starter who would deny him position in the present NBA (I can see Embiid, Nurkic doing a serviceable job).
I'm not really sure that Shaq had superior inside gravity than Kareem. Both demanded a lot of attention from defense and Kareem was also extremely good at establishing inside position (though Shaq was probably the best ever at that). On top of that, Shaq wasn't super efficient post player - he's less efficient than both Kareem and Hakeem actually.
(2) I believe Shaq and Kareem are similar in terms of passing ability. Both are superior to Hakeem in that regard, obviously.
I agree here. I think that Kareem was more creative passer who made more high quality passess (including outlet passes), but Shaq was very consistent at finding open teammates.
For the record, despite favoring Shaq/Dirk and possibly Hakeem over him offensively, I think Kareem defensively would be even better in the modern NBA. He had the perfect body and athleticism early in his career, and could conceivably be better than a guy like Garnett on that end.
I don't think Kareem would ever reach KG level on defense, but I agree that he was perfectly suited to translate across eras. Bucks Kareem was a defensive monster.