Hornets chris Paul vs orlando penny hardaway,?

[falcolombardi]

how does chris Paul, his early pre injury prime version in New orleans specifically compare to pre injury penny?

both as a talent (did penny have even greater potential than cp3?)

and as a player (between 96/97 penny and 08/09 paul who was the better player?)

[HeartBreakKid]

Chris was better. He was in argument for best player in the league and was only 22, and was probably underrated his rookie and sophomore year in hindsight. The 2009 RS would have gone down as one of the GOAT seasons if Paul didn't hurt himself for the post season.

Penny was more of a top 15 maybe top ten guy? Like Dame Lillard, and he was older.

Penny had the luxury of playing on a stacked team even outside of Shaq his team was really talented. D3, Grant, Anderson are all great support to have when you already have O'Neal. Paul lead a team of guys on the way out or players who were passed over to nearly the #1 seed and were competitive in the post season. His team was pretty bad post 2008 as well.


Penny's boxscore stats were lower than Paul's overall, at least during Paul's two premier seasons. Paul also played in a less offensive league, Penny played with a shorten 3 point line. CP3 was a better defender than Penny by then as well.

[Dr Positivity]

Penny is barely a better scorer, while Paul has significant advantage in passing and defense. His knee surgery is probably underrated what if as I don't think he was the same athletically after but still got to nearly as high impact.

[kcktiny]

Obviously Chris Paul has had a HOF career.

But many had already anointed Penny Hardaway the 2nd coming of Magic Johnson after the 1995-96 season - he was that good. That season and Paul's 2008-09 are probably 2 of the top 10-15 seasons statistically by a PG ever.

[Colbinii]

Obviously Chris Paul has had a HOF career.

But many had already anointed Penny Hardaway the 2nd coming of Magic Johnson after the 1995-96 season - he was that good. That season and Paul's 2008-09 are probably 2 of the top 10-15 seasons statistically by a PG ever.

CP3: 30.0 PER, 11 BPM, 18.3 WS
Penny: 24.6 PER, 7.2 BPM, 14.4 WS

Not really comparable.

[kcktiny]

That 1995-96 Orlando team won 60 games with Shaq missing 28 games.

If Paul and Hardaway were not comparable, and assuming you feel Paul was not only better but much better, what would the Magic's record have been had Paul been on that team instead of Hardaway?

[sp6r=underrated]

I'd take Paul comfortably as well. But in Penny's defense (i) his box score stats are great; (ii) based on recognition everyone at the time thought he was headed for the HOF; (iii) the one season we have any on/off numbers for he looks like he was having a significant impact.

Again Paul is a near GOAT in all areas as well, so Paul wins this comparison.

But I feel very comfortable in stating this was a HOF career destroyed by injury

[Ryoga Hibiki]

I must admit I haven't been rewatching Penny so I am basing this on some distant memories (dangerous), but I think I am taking him here.
That package at that size was insane, I can't imagine what he could have been today.

___
Sent from my Nokia 3210 using RealGM mobile app

[Bobbcats]

The 2009 RS would have gone down as one of the GOAT seasons if Paul didn't hurt himself for the post season.

2nd team All-NBA though. Don't know if there was ever another 2nd team with 30 PER and 18 WS, but he was on a streak of losing honors to Kobe for playing on a team that got no coverage.

[TheBomb81]

Penny for me.

[Jaivl]

The 2009 RS would have gone down as one of the GOAT seasons if Paul didn't hurt himself for the post season.

2nd team All-NBA though. Don't know if there was ever another 2nd team with 30 PER and 18 WS, but he was on a streak of losing honors to Kobe for playing on a team that got no coverage.

Well, and for being a worse player (in 2008).

[homecourtloss]

That 1995-96 Orlando team won 60 games with Shaq missing 28 games.

If Paul and Hardaway were not comparable, and assuming you feel Paul was not only better but much better, what would the Magic's record have been had Paul been on that team instead of Hardaway?

1996 Penny was quite the force. +17.1 ON-OFF, highest BPM, highest many others things including TS Added with a +6.3 rTS. It’s a shame that 1996 was his last year he was himself before the injuries.

About the 60 wins with Shaq missing so many games: it is a testament to Penny and that team, but it also has to be put into consideration how weak that year was post expansion.

I’d still have to give the edge to Paul as he was the better defender (not even relative to size and position but better overall), and better overall offensive player. Had Penny stayed healthy, who knows how good he could have become.

[euroleague]

People in this thread who never watched Penny, and it’s obvious. Judging point guards by box scores and PER is like judging defense by PER. What’s next, Damian Lillard was better than peak magic?

Penny was the better talent, and it wasn’t that close. Penny’s passing and playmaking was just on another level. Everyone has seen Penny highlights at least... you should realize they’re mostly from one season.

I think Shaq’s reactions to judging teammates is pretty telling. He CLEARLY has Penny above Wade in terms of talent, you can see it in OpenCourt ranking discussions.

Chris Paul was more efficient, and had more time to hone his talent than Penny did in his 3rd year in the league. But, Penny’s talent? Not even close. I’d say a better modern comp would be KD, tall skinny guys who could ball.

[HeartBreakKid]

People in this thread who never watched Penny, and it’s obvious. Judging point guards by box scores and PER is like judging defense by PER. What’s next, Damian Lillard was better than peak magic?

Penny was the better talent, and it wasn’t that close. Penny’s passing and playmaking was just on another level. Everyone has seen Penny highlights at least... you should realize they’re mostly from one season.

I think Shaq’s reactions to judging teammates is pretty telling. He CLEARLY has Penny above Wade in terms of talent, you can see it in OpenCourt ranking discussions.

Chris Paul was more efficient, and had more time to hone his talent than Penny did in his 3rd year in the league. But, Penny’s talent? Not even close. I’d say a better modern comp would be KD, tall skinny guys who could ball.

Well, I saw both play...and Paul was better. Pretty obviously.

Lol at saying their talent isn't close. Chris Paul was arguably the best player by his 3rd season, how on earth can it not be close? Penny was never that.

You're just on the kool-aid, you probably think if Grant Hill didn't get injured he'd be Jordan too.

[euroleague]

People in this thread who never watched Penny, and it’s obvious. Judging point guards by box scores and PER is like judging defense by PER. What’s next, Damian Lillard was better than peak magic?

Penny was the better talent, and it wasn’t that close. Penny’s passing and playmaking was just on another level. Everyone has seen Penny highlights at least... you should realize they’re mostly from one season.

I think Shaq’s reactions to judging teammates is pretty telling. He CLEARLY has Penny above Wade in terms of talent, you can see it in OpenCourt ranking discussions.

Chris Paul was more efficient, and had more time to hone his talent than Penny did in his 3rd year in the league. But, Penny’s talent? Not even close. I’d say a better modern comp would be KD, tall skinny guys who could ball.

Well, I saw both play...and Paul was better. Pretty obviously.

Lol at saying their talent isn't close. Chris Paul was arguably the best player by his 3rd season, how on earth can it not be close? Penny was never that.

You're just on the kool-aid, you probably think if Grant Hill didn't get injured he'd be Jordan too.

Penny was behind only 96 MJ and 96 David Robinson, who had an unreal regular season. Both blow 08 CP3 out of the water, who may have had the best regular season but DEFINITELY wasn’t the best player in the league.

Being in the discussion for the best in 08 regular season is just not impressive, and his playoffs were not top 3. Kobe going did better against Bruce Bowen than CP3 against Tony Parker, when they played the Spurs.

Chris Paul and Deron Williams was the actual debate, and Penny vs Shaq was Penny’s debate...

Steve Nash was the best player for several regular seasons. You going to argue he was as talented as Shaq?

[falcolombardi]

People in this thread who never watched Penny, and it’s obvious. Judging point guards by box scores and PER is like judging defense by PER. What’s next, Damian Lillard was better than peak magic?

Penny was the better talent, and it wasn’t that close. Penny’s passing and playmaking was just on another level. Everyone has seen Penny highlights at least... you should realize they’re mostly from one season.

I think Shaq’s reactions to judging teammates is pretty telling. He CLEARLY has Penny above Wade in terms of talent, you can see it in OpenCourt ranking discussions.

Chris Paul was more efficient, and had more time to hone his talent than Penny did in his 3rd year in the league. But, Penny’s talent? Not even close. I’d say a better modern comp would be KD, tall skinny guys who could ball.

Well, I saw both play...and Paul was better. Pretty obviously.

Lol at saying their talent isn't close. Chris Paul was arguably the best player by his 3rd season, how on earth can it not be close? Penny was never that.

You're just on the kool-aid, you probably think if Grant Hill didn't get injured he'd be Jordan too.

Penny was behind only 96 MJ and 96 David Robinson, who had an unreal regular season. Both blow 08 CP3 out of the water, who may have had the best regular season but DEFINITELY wasn’t the best player in the league.

Being in the discussion for the best in 08 regular season is just not impressive, and his playoffs were not top 3. Kobe going did better against Bruce Bowen than CP3 against Tony Parker, when they played the Spurs.

Chris Paul and Deron Williams was the actual debate, and Penny vs Shaq was Penny’s debate...

Steve Nash was the best player for several regular seasons. You going to argue he was as talented as Shaq?

Chris vs kobe was the actual debate, kobe arguably stole his mvp from chris in 2008 thanks to a bigger market/spotlight

[sp6r=underrated]

People in this thread who never watched Penny, and it’s obvious. Judging point guards by box scores and PER is like judging defense by PER. What’s next, Damian Lillard was better than peak magic?

Penny was the better talent, and it wasn’t that close. Penny’s passing and playmaking was just on another level. Everyone has seen Penny highlights at least... you should realize they’re mostly from one season.

I think Shaq’s reactions to judging teammates is pretty telling. He CLEARLY has Penny above Wade in terms of talent, you can see it in OpenCourt ranking discussions.

Chris Paul was more efficient, and had more time to hone his talent than Penny did in his 3rd year in the league. But, Penny’s talent? Not even close. I’d say a better modern comp would be KD, tall skinny guys who could ball.

I'm quite old. I watched all of Penny's career. I remember how pissed people were when Orlando won the lottery.

It caused the NBA to panic, sadly, and extremely weigh the odds in favor of bad teams because they feared the Orlando dynasty which would have happened if Shaq stayed and Penny didn't get hurt.

He was a great player. He would have been a HOFer but for injury. Paul was better.

Paul is less interesting to watch than Penny because his greatness comes in large part from the elimination of errors. He's led numerous teams that ranked 1st in offensive efficiency and did it by killing turnovers & other related mistakes entirerly from the offense.

It was and is very effective but it doesn't lead to the highlights that most of the other ATG Point Guards have who were more tolerant about turnovers but generated greater efficiency by spectacular, risky passes.

Paul is the Rodgers of the NBA

[euroleague]

People in this thread who never watched Penny, and it’s obvious. Judging point guards by box scores and PER is like judging defense by PER. What’s next, Damian Lillard was better than peak magic?

Penny was the better talent, and it wasn’t that close. Penny’s passing and playmaking was just on another level. Everyone has seen Penny highlights at least... you should realize they’re mostly from one season.

I think Shaq’s reactions to judging teammates is pretty telling. He CLEARLY has Penny above Wade in terms of talent, you can see it in OpenCourt ranking discussions.

Chris Paul was more efficient, and had more time to hone his talent than Penny did in his 3rd year in the league. But, Penny’s talent? Not even close. I’d say a better modern comp would be KD, tall skinny guys who could ball.

I'm quite old. I watched all of Penny's career. I remember how pissed people were when Orlando won the lottery.

It caused the NBA to panic, sadly, and extremely weigh the odds in favor of bad teams because they feared the Orlando dynasty which would have happened if Shaq stayed and Penny didn't get hurt.

He was a great player. He would have been a HOFer but for injury. Paul was better.

Paul is less interesting to watch than Penny because his greatness comes in large part from the elimination of errors. He's led numerous teams that ranked 1st in offensive efficiency and did it by killing turnovers & other related mistakes entirerly from the offense.

It was and is very effective but it doesn't lead to the highlights that most of the other ATG Point Guards have who were more tolerant about turnovers but generated greater efficiency by spectacular, risky passes.

Paul is the Rodgers of the NBA

Chris Paul has a very refined, technical playstyle. He shoots the most efficient shots, plays a grind and grit/dirty playstyle (similar to Stockton), and ekes the most out of every possession.

He’s a very statistically intelligent player. But, in terms of talent, he’s no Penny. Penny was a lightning quick, 6’7 pg with unreal handles.

Derrick Rose is a good comparison. Unreal talent ruined by injuries. Penny was a far better passer though. Was peak CP3 better than peak Rose? Most people would agree he was. More talented? I don’t think so.