Higher peak: Tim Duncan vs Kevin Garnett vs Dirk Nowitzki

[70sFan]

Add Karl Malone to this comparison and what is the order of best peaks? Think Malone has a case for number 1 and is no less than number 2.

I'd have him 4th for peak, slightly behind Dirk. Not close to Duncan at all.

[migya]

Add Karl Malone to this comparison and what is the order of best peaks? Think Malone has a case for number 1 and is no less than number 2.

I'd have him 4th for peak, slightly behind Dirk. Not close to Duncan at all.

He carried his team for years with less talent than Duncan's and had arguably better numbers.

[70sFan]

Add Karl Malone to this comparison and what is the order of best peaks? Think Malone has a case for number 1 and is no less than number 2.

I'd have him 4th for peak, slightly behind Dirk. Not close to Duncan at all.

He carried his team for years with less talent than Duncan's and had arguably better numbers.

Malone didn't play with worse talent than Duncan in 2001-04. By numbers you mean scoring numbers right? That's not enough to take him over Duncan, especially when you factor that his scoring didn't translate to postseason.

[Jaivl]

Add Karl Malone to this comparison and what is the order of best peaks? Think Malone has a case for number 1 and is no less than number 2.

He fits in last place, zero votes.

[feyki]

I don't have Malone in my top 35 peaks, but I would put Barkley ahead of both Dirk and KG regarding the primes.

[migya]

I'd have him 4th for peak, slightly behind Dirk. Not close to Duncan at all.

He carried his team for years with less talent than Duncan's and had arguably better numbers.

Malone didn't play with worse talent than Duncan in 2001-04. By numbers you mean scoring numbers right? That's not enough to take him over Duncan, especially when you factor that his scoring didn't translate to postseason.

24.7pts in 193 playoff games over every year off his career. Your view is incorrect.

[70sFan]

He carried his team for years with less talent than Duncan's and had arguably better numbers.

Malone didn't play with worse talent than Duncan in 2001-04. By numbers you mean scoring numbers right? That's not enough to take him over Duncan, especially when you factor that his scoring didn't translate to postseason.

24.7pts in 193 playoff games over every year off his career. Your view is incorrect.

It would be nice if you can add his efficiency numbers.

[GSP]

Add Karl Malone to this comparison and what is the order of best peaks? Think Malone has a case for number 1 and is no less than number 2.

I'd have him 4th for peak, slightly behind Dirk. Not close to Duncan at all.

He carried his team for years with less talent than Duncan's and had arguably better numbers.

Barkley and Giannis peaked higher than Mailman TBH

[migya]

Malone didn't play with worse talent than Duncan in 2001-04. By numbers you mean scoring numbers right? That's not enough to take him over Duncan, especially when you factor that his scoring didn't translate to postseason.

24.7pts in 193 playoff games over every year off his career. Your view is incorrect.

It would be nice if you can add his efficiency numbers.

The other three also dropped in efficiency, what's your point. So that's the only thing that counts.

Sure Malone, at least when he was very young, was a sick bastard for what he did with that girl, should've probably got some consequence, but the guy was a great player and his performance was great for so many years.

[migya]

I'd have him 4th for peak, slightly behind Dirk. Not close to Duncan at all.

He carried his team for years with less talent than Duncan's and had arguably better numbers.

Barkley and Giannis peaked higher than Mailman TBH

Barkley's statistical best season was probably 1988 where he had 28pts but Malone beat that in 1990 Where he had 31pts and better defense.

Giannis is in a start inflated era. He's not getting anywhere near those numbers in the other guy's era.

[70sFan]

24.7pts in 193 playoff games over every year off his career. Your view is incorrect.

It would be nice if you can add his efficiency numbers.

The other three also dropped in efficiency, what's your point. So that's the only thing that counts.

Sure Malone, at least when he was very young, was a sick bastard for what he did with that girl, should've probably got some consequence, but the guy was a great player and his performance was great for so many years.

1988-98 Karl Malone:

27.6 ppg, 59.1 TS% in RS
27.4 ppg, 53.4 TS% in PS

1998-08 Tim Duncan:

21.6 ppg, 55.3 TS% in RS
23.4 ppg, 55.2 TS% in PS

2001-11 Dirk Nowitzki:

24.3 ppg, 58.6 TS% in RS
25.9 ppg, 58.4 TS% in PS

Here are culminative stats against -2.0 rDRtg defenses or better:

Tim Duncan (29.09% of playoffs games): 40.8 mpg, 13.9 rpg, 3.5 apg, 3.1 tov, 22.5 ppg on 46.9% FG, 68.4% FT and 52.0% TS (-0.50% rTS)
Kevin Garnett (36.92% of playoffs games): 40.1 mpg, 11.5 rpg, 4.4 apg, 2.6 tov, 20.5 ppg on 45.1% FG, 79.6% FT and 51.1% TS (-1.75% rTS)
Charles Barkley:(41.89% of playoffs games): 41.8 mpg, 12.8 rpg, 3.9 apg, 2.6 tov, 25.7 ppg on 52.0% FG, 23.1% 3FG, 77.6% FT and 59.9% TS (+6.30% rTS)
Dirk Nowitzki: (47.58% of playoffs games): 40.9 mpg, 10.3 rpg, 2.6 apg, 2.2 tov, 24.4 ppg on 46.1% FG, 36.7% 3FG, 90.5% FT and 57.6% TS (+4.41% rTS)
Karl Malone (62.94% of playoffs games): 41.7 mpg, 11.2 rpg, 3.5 apg, 2.8 tov, 25.8 ppg on 45.7% FG, 72.1% FT and 51.9% TS (-1.29% rTS)
Bob Pettit (36.78% of playoffs games): 41.5 mpg, 15.9 rpg, 2.8 apg, -- tov, 26.8 ppg on 41.9% FG, 76.6% FT and 50.0% TS (+3.75% rTS)

In summary:

- Malone efficiency decline is by far the biggest among superstar PFs,
- to his credit, Malone faced a lot of elite defensive teams in postseason,
- still - Barkley, Dirk and Pettit were significantly more resiliant scorers than Malone,
- Duncan is comparable scorer to Malone in postseason, but he peaked clearly higher (1999-03 is better stretch than any in Malone's career) and scoring is the only advantage Malone has over Duncan in RS.

So no, Malone is not better than Duncan or Garnett. He's comparable to Dirk, Pettit and Barkley due to his passing and defense, but he's the weakest scorer among them.

[MartinToVaught]

I don’t consider the 3 in the same tier really. I consider Duncan clearly first. Then KG is a bit better than Dirk. I think Duncan’s peak is like top 5 or 6 of all time.

Nowitzki single-handedly beat LeBron, Wade and Bosh in the Finals. Sensational peak.

Not to discredit Dirk, who was impressive, but that Mavs team was stacked. There was nothing "single-handed" about it. Look at Duncan's title run in 2003 if you want to see what a carry job looks like.

[feyki]

I don’t consider the 3 in the same tier really. I consider Duncan clearly first. Then KG is a bit better than Dirk. I think Duncan’s peak is like top 5 or 6 of all time.

Nowitzki single-handedly beat LeBron, Wade and Bosh in the Finals. Sensational peak.

Not to discredit Dirk, who was impressive, but that Mavs team was stacked. There was nothing "single-handed" about it. Look at Duncan's title run in 2003 if you want to see what a carry job looks like.

Yes, too stacked when Dirk missed 9 consecutive games in the right middle of the season, they went with -5,8(5th worst) SRS and 18W on pace and Mavs w/Dirk +5,9(5th best) SRS and 62W on pace.

Probably you missed that year. I have never seen a carrying job like he did in the WCF.

[Mr B]

I don’t consider the 3 in the same tier really. I consider Duncan clearly first. Then KG is a bit better than Dirk. I think Duncan’s peak is like top 5 or 6 of all time.

Nowitzki single-handedly beat LeBron, Wade and Bosh in the Finals. Sensational peak.

Not to discredit Dirk, who was impressive, but that Mavs team was stacked. There was nothing "single-handed" about it. Look at Duncan's title run in 2003 if you want to see what a carry job looks like.

Stacked? I wouldn’t exactly call them stacked. That team had 1 player make the All Star team that year (Dirk as a backup). Kidd was the very end of his career (Shawn Marion wasn’t far behind). Tyson had also been a castoff of multiple other teams. And Jason Terry only averaged 15 points per game. Is that more stacked than Labron, Wade, Bosh, and Haslem all in their prime?

[Colbinii]

Nowitzki single-handedly beat LeBron, Wade and Bosh in the Finals. Sensational peak.

Not to discredit Dirk, who was impressive, but that Mavs team was stacked. There was nothing "single-handed" about it. Look at Duncan's title run in 2003 if you want to see what a carry job looks like.

Stacked? I wouldn’t exactly call them stacked. That team had 1 player make the All Star team that year (Dirk as a backup). Kidd was the very end of his career (Shawn Marion wasn’t far behind). Tyson had also been a castoff of multiple other teams. And Jason Terry only averaged 15 points per game. Is that more stacked than Labron, Wade, Bosh, and Haslem all in their prime?

Haslem in his prime? He played 12 games off the bench in the post-season and one more [13 games] in the regular season.

This is the first post in RealGM's history where I have seen "Haslem in his prime" as an argument to bolster the talent level of the 2011 Heat. That's impressive trolling.

[Mr B]

Not to discredit Dirk, who was impressive, but that Mavs team was stacked. There was nothing "single-handed" about it. Look at Duncan's title run in 2003 if you want to see what a carry job looks like.

Stacked? I wouldn’t exactly call them stacked. That team had 1 player make the All Star team that year (Dirk as a backup). Kidd was the very end of his career (Shawn Marion wasn’t far behind). Tyson had also been a castoff of multiple other teams. And Jason Terry only averaged 15 points per game. Is that more stacked than Labron, Wade, Bosh, and Haslem all in their prime?

Haslem in his prime? He played 12 games off the bench in the post-season and one more [13 games] in the regular season.

This is the first post in RealGM's history where I have seen "Haslem in his prime" as an argument to bolster the talent level of the 2011 Heat. That's impressive trolling.

Haslem was the best defender on that team.

But even still, let’s take Haslem off that Heat team. Are you saying Dirk, Terry, and Marion is a more stacked team than Labron, Wade, and Bosh all in their prime?

Edit: and for the record Haslem was 31 and technically still at the end of his prime.

[Colbinii]

Stacked? I wouldn’t exactly call them stacked. That team had 1 player make the All Star team that year (Dirk as a backup). Kidd was the very end of his career (Shawn Marion wasn’t far behind). Tyson had also been a castoff of multiple other teams. And Jason Terry only averaged 15 points per game. Is that more stacked than Labron, Wade, Bosh, and Haslem all in their prime?

Haslem in his prime? He played 12 games off the bench in the post-season and one more [13 games] in the regular season.

This is the first post in RealGM's history where I have seen "Haslem in his prime" as an argument to bolster the talent level of the 2011 Heat. That's impressive trolling.

Haslem was the best defender on that team.

But even still, let’s take Haslem off that Heat team. Are you saying Dirk, Terry, and Marion is a more stacked team than Labron, Wade, and Bosh all in their prime?

No, I never said anything remotely close to as outlandish as that or as what you said regarding Haslem

[No-more-rings]

I wouldn't call the 2011 Mavs stacked but I wouldn't consider it a bad cast either. Marion, Kidd, Chandler, Terry, Berea, Peja and Stevenson is pretty damn solid. Definitely one of the most balanced teams in the league that year. The Heat cast outside of the big 3 was probably the worst 4-12 rotation in the league. Joel Anthony who was a garbage player was averaging 27.4 mpg in the playoffs, Bibby was washed up and almost useless he was playing around 21 mpg. James and Miller were good shooters but couldn't really create for themselves or do anything meaningful outside of shoot a few 3s.

[Jaivl]

I don’t consider the 3 in the same tier really. I consider Duncan clearly first. Then KG is a bit better than Dirk. I think Duncan’s peak is like top 5 or 6 of all time.

Nowitzki single-handedly beat LeBron, Wade and Bosh in the Finals. Sensational peak.

Not to discredit Dirk, who was impressive, but that Mavs team was stacked. There was nothing "single-handed" about it. Look at Duncan's title run in 2003 if you want to see what a carry job looks like.

It was an excellent defensive squad, but not stacked by any means, lol. Very Dirk dependent on offense, overall it seems about par for the 06-16 era, maybe even below average.