What's the youngest age you think Kareem could have played in the Nba at.

[coastalmarker99]

Kareem famously went 79-2 in high school including a 71 game winning streak plus winning 3 straight New York City Catholic championships.

And he was also getting praised at the time by Wilt who said he had the potential to be the greatest ever.

Therefore it makes me wonder.

If Kareem had been allowed to enter the NBA as a 17 or 18-year-old teenager.


Do you think he would have been able to handle himself well against Wilt and Russell plus the other pros of that era?

[70sFan]

Worse players than Kareem played at 18 years old, I'm sure he would be able to play in the league. That said, he would need a lot of time to develop his body and improve skills. I don't think it would give him big advantage in career evaluation. I love how he came in and started dominating right from start.

[Statlanta]

Why didn't Shaq and other dominant physique Centers come straight out of high school? Cause there were grown men in the league.

[feyki]

In his rookie year he had a historic playoff run, arguably better than any of Lebron,Wilt and Jordan's runs. He could have been in the league at the 20 age, I feel.

[picko]

I'm not familiar enough with Kareem's physical development to declare a definitive cut-off point. The footage I've seen from him at UCLA shows that he'd would have been a dominant NBA player well before he graduated.

The question is how young could someone like Kareem have made an NBA roster - in an environment where there are no age limits. Overseas we often see the best prospects - think someone like Doncic - debut when they are 15-years old. They might not play much but they get a few minutes here and there.

Depending on his height progression - I've seen reports that he was 6'8 as a high school freshman but I don't know when he hit 7' - it's quite plausible that he could have made an NBA roster as a junior or senior at high school. So my best guess would be 16 or 17.

[falcolombardi]

he could have joined straight out of high school and probably play as a decent center

at what are could he have been a star in his rookie season?, probábly after 1 or 2 seasons of college tbh

[JordansBulls]

At that time probably at least 15-16 years of age.

[70sFan]

I'm not familiar enough with Kareem's physical development to declare a definitive cut-off point. The footage I've seen from him at UCLA shows that he'd would have been a dominant NBA player well before he graduated.

The question is how young could someone like Kareem have made an NBA roster - in an environment where there are no age limits. Overseas we often see the best prospects - think someone like Doncic - debut when they are 15-years old. They might not play much but they get a few minutes here and there.

Depending on his height progression - I've seen reports that he was 6'8 as a high school freshman but I don't know when he hit 7' - it's quite plausible that he could have made an NBA roster as a junior or senior at high school. So my best guess would be 16 or 17.

We have some Kareem footage from 1965 and he was already a giant:

Watch on YouTube

[trex_8063]

Kareem was possibly a top-3 player in the league right out of the gates in '70.......looking at his college numbers, it looks as though he was similarly dominant in ALL prior years at UCLA. Even his freshman numbers (age 18) are staggering. His scoring metrics take a bit of a dip in his junior year [when they outlawed dunking in the NCAA].

Of course, one has to wonder if his game would have developed the same (in particular: would he have honed his sky-hook to the same degree if not forced to play a couple seasons with no dunking?). So it's possible he doesn't have the same "unblockable" shot if he goes straight to the NBA from highschool. And, fwiw, it would be naive to assume he'd have a 24-year NBA career if he'd come straight out of highschool, too (the mileage adds up quicker in the NBA, compared to an NCAA season).

But I digress (that's not the question being asked).

I look at how utterly dominant his college numbers are as an 18-yr-old freshman, note that he was an MVP-tier player in his rookie season in the NBA, and I can't help thinking that he'd probably have been capable of at least being a replacement-level or average-level NBA player in the mid-60s NBA beginning around age 15-16.
I don't think he'd have been a top-10 player until closer to 18.

[DQuinn1575]

Kareem was possibly a top-3 player in the league right out of the gates in '70.......looking at his college numbers, it looks as though he was similarly dominant in ALL prior years at UCLA. Even his freshman numbers (age 18) are staggering. His scoring metrics take a bit of a dip in his junior year [when they outlawed dunking in the NCAA].

.......

I look at how utterly dominant his college numbers are as an 18-yr-old freshman, note that he was an MVP-tier player in his rookie season in the NBA, and I can't help thinking that he'd probably have been capable of at least being a replacement-level or average-level NBA player in the mid-60s NBA beginning around age 15-16.
I don't think he'd have been a top-10 player until closer to 18.

His scoring metrics went down his junior year due to his eye injury which affected him for a couple of games, most notably the Game of The Century vs Houston.

His freshman year he scored 30+ points against the varsity that was Top 10 in SRS that season, he was by far the most dominant player in the country as a soph. He scored 20+ points his first 5 games in the NBA. No doubt in my mind he would have been a star coming into the league out of high school.

The clip in the thread is one of two I have seen of him in high school, both as a senior. In the clip he is playing against Bob Lienhard, who is the all-time rebounding leader at Georgia, but was one of the very first to go to Europe instead of the NBA. Also opposing him is future pro Dean Meminger. I know it is highlights. but look what he was doing against a future college star who would have been a marginal NBA player. He is very mobile, the 8-9 centers by win shares in 1965 were JIm Barnes and Leroy Ellis, pretty sure Alcindor was at least as good as them in 65.

I havent seen any film of him in 63 or 64, as a soph or junior, but here is what is known:
1. Team did not lose a game either year, playing in tough NYC league + jr year vs stacked DeMatha team
2. Considered top player in NYC and 1 of top 5 in country - in NYC Sonny Dove who played in NBA/ABA was a star who was 2 years older. So Alcindor as a soph was better than a future NBA senior.
3. His stats did not get outrageously better from his soph year to senior year. I'm sure his game improved, but its not like he went from 15 ppg as a soph to 30 ppg as a senior.
4. As a frosh, he was around 6-8, and did score around 13 ppg - no way NBA ready.

So based on this, I think he probably would been a pro level sub player his soph year, capable of playing in the league, and by his senior year a decent starter in the league.

[trex_8063]

Kareem was possibly a top-3 player in the league right out of the gates in '70.......looking at his college numbers, it looks as though he was similarly dominant in ALL prior years at UCLA. Even his freshman numbers (age 18) are staggering. His scoring metrics take a bit of a dip in his junior year [when they outlawed dunking in the NCAA].

.......

I look at how utterly dominant his college numbers are as an 18-yr-old freshman, note that he was an MVP-tier player in his rookie season in the NBA, and I can't help thinking that he'd probably have been capable of at least being a replacement-level or average-level NBA player in the mid-60s NBA beginning around age 15-16.
I don't think he'd have been a top-10 player until closer to 18.

His scoring metrics went down his junior year due to his eye injury which affected him for a couple of games, most notably the Game of The Century vs Houston.

So did the eye injury affect just 2-3 games, or the whole season? Affecting things for just a tenth of the season shouldn't put too much of a dent in his full-season numbers, is what I'm getting at. I also note that his scoring metrics do NOT bounce back his senior year [when the no-dunk rule was still in place].

His freshman year he scored 30+ points against the varsity that was Top 10 in SRS that season, he was by far the most dominant player in the country as a soph. He scored 20+ points his first 5 games in the NBA. No doubt in my mind he would have been a star coming into the league out of high school.

The clip in the thread is one of two I have seen of him in high school, both as a senior. In the clip he is playing against Bob Lienhard, who is the all-time rebounding leader at Georgia, but was one of the very first to go to Europe instead of the NBA. Also opposing him is future pro Dean Meminger. I know it is highlights. but look what he was doing against a future college star who would have been a marginal NBA player. He is very mobile, the 8-9 centers by win shares in 1965 were JIm Barnes and Leroy Ellis, pretty sure Alcindor was at least as good as them in 65.

Please take note that I said I think 18-yr-old Kareem would have [potentially] been a top-10 player in the NBA of the mid-60s.....not just a top-10 center.

I havent seen any film of him in 63 or 64, as a soph or junior, but here is what is known:
1. Team did not lose a game either year, playing in tough NYC league + jr year vs stacked DeMatha team
2. Considered top player in NYC and 1 of top 5 in country - in NYC Sonny Dove who played in NBA/ABA was a star who was 2 years older. So Alcindor as a soph was better than a future NBA senior.
3. His stats did not get outrageously better from his soph year to senior year. I'm sure his game improved, but its not like he went from 15 ppg as a soph to 30 ppg as a senior.
4. As a frosh, he was around 6-8, and did score around 13 ppg - no way NBA ready.

So based on this, I think he probably would been a pro level sub player his soph year, capable of playing in the league, and by his senior year a decent starter in the league.

Good info here. I'd agree: have a hard time seeing 14-15 yr old [highschool freshman] Kareem competing in the NBA. But by his sophomore year [age 15-16].....yeah, I think he'd at least be a fair back-up center in the NBA of '63.

[Johnlac1]

He would have had a pretty rough time of it coming out of high school playing against centers like Chamberlain, Russell, Thurmond, Reed, Bellamy, and even smaller centers like Zelmo Beatty who was a pretty tough customer.
There were only nine teams in the league in '65-66, so he would have been up against a pretty good player almost every night.
He had the athleticism and was a smart player, but probably just a little too underdeveloped at that point to stand up to the rough play he'd have experienced at an early age.
But after a few years of getting banged around and learning the ropes, he'd have been pretty formidable. I'm sure if he had played just one year at UCLA he'd have been the no 1 pick and done alright in the league his rookie year.

[DQuinn1575]

I'm not familiar enough with Kareem's physical development to declare a definitive cut-off point. The footage I've seen from him at UCLA shows that he'd would have been a dominant NBA player well before he graduated.

The question is how young could someone like Kareem have made an NBA roster - in an environment where there are no age limits. Overseas we often see the best prospects - think someone like Doncic - debut when they are 15-years old. They might not play much but they get a few minutes here and there.

Depending on his height progression - I've seen reports that he was 6'8 as a high school freshman but I don't know when he hit 7' - it's quite plausible that he could have made an NBA roster as a junior or senior at high school. So my best guess would be 16 or 17.

We have some Kareem footage from 1965 and he was already a giant:

Watch on YouTube

I respect your opinion, and you've watched more early 60s centers than I have.
I'm pretty sure this is all from one game - the city championship game vs Rice, a top team. So although highlights, it is only from 1 game, not a season's worth.

Alcindor's two moves on the baseline where he dunks on a reverse layup, plus his mobility on blocked shots to me are really something, and I think better than any other high school senior/college frosh I've ever seen. He's 7 feet, and was that tall since his soph year.

How does his mobility in this clip compare to the non WIlt/Russell centers of the period?

[DQuinn1575]

Kareem was possibly a top-3 player in the league right out of the gates in '70.......looking at his college numbers, it looks as though he was similarly dominant in ALL prior years at UCLA. Even his freshman numbers (age 18) are staggering. His scoring metrics take a bit of a dip in his junior year [when they outlawed dunking in the NCAA].

.......

I look at how utterly dominant his college numbers are as an 18-yr-old freshman, note that he was an MVP-tier player in his rookie season in the NBA, and I can't help thinking that he'd probably have been capable of at least being a replacement-level or average-level NBA player in the mid-60s NBA beginning around age 15-16.
I don't think he'd have been a top-10 player until closer to 18.

His scoring metrics went down his junior year due to his eye injury which affected him for a couple of games, most notably the Game of The Century vs Houston.

So did the eye injury affect just 2-3 games, or the whole season? Affecting things for just a tenth of the season shouldn't put too much of a dent in his full-season numbers, is what I'm getting at. I also note that his scoring metrics do NOT bounce back his senior year [when the no-dunk rule was still in place].

Just a couple of games for the eye- the injury was just before the Houston game - adjusting for it he shoots about as well as he did his senior year. I dont know how much college basketball you watched in the early 70s, but the biggest guys just dropped the ball in.

He scores less his junior year vs soph year due to addition of Lacey, plus Wooden playing his subs more - the scoring of the subs is really went up. We don't have minutes played, but looks like he probably played his starters less as the subs scored more.

Vs Senior yr the team played at a slightly slower tempo, plus added Curtis Rowe & Sidney Wicks as well as Vallely - the team became a little more balanced.

I didn't watch Alcindor live until he was in the pros, and only have watched 3 games of him in college, 1 each year.

[trex_8063]

Just a couple of games for the eye- the injury was just before the Houston game - adjusting for it he shoots about as well as he did his senior year. I dont know how much college basketball you watched in the early 70s, but the biggest guys just dropped the ball in.

He scores less his junior year vs soph year due to addition of Lacey, plus Wooden playing his subs more - the scoring of the subs is really went up. We don't have minutes played, but looks like he probably played his starters less as the subs scored more.

Vs Senior yr the team played at a slightly slower tempo, plus added Curtis Rowe & Sidney Wicks as well as Vallely - the team became a little more balanced.

Fair enough wrt the bolded portions. However, when I said his "scoring metrics" dip, I was referring to a dip in his scoring efficiency, too. A deeper, more balanced team wouldn't account for that [if anything, should HELP his efficiency].

In his sophomore year [dunking still legal]: 66.7% FG (had been 68.3% as a freshman, too), with a .528 FTAr.
Junior year [no dunking]: 61.3% FG, with .494 FTAr.
Senior year [still no dunking, and no eye injury]: 63.5% FG, with .394 FTAr.

[70sFan]

How does his mobility in this clip compare to the non WIlt/Russell centers of the period?

Tough to compare him against NBA level athletes, but I think he compares favorably against most of them. He looks to be more mobile than Thurmond (who was quite mobile himself) but didn't have Nate's footwork (he actually never reached Nate in this aspect). Definitely quicker than Walt Bellamy. Somewhere around LeRoy Ellis I'd guess, but with much more length and athleticism.