Rank these players in order of Rim Protection ability.

[LAL1947]

From what I remember, prime Duncan was quicker and more athletic than either Mutombo or Gobert, as was Mourning who is in 2B with Duncan. The difference between the 2 level and the 3 level is small and I could see him slotting into 3 quite comfortably.

Sorry, but to my eye Mutombo and Gobert were both quicker and more athletic than Duncan at the same ages, especially Mutombo, who was on a different level as an athlete. Are you sure you aren't unintentionally gifting or apportioning some of David Robinson's quickness and athleticism to Tim Duncan because they played together?

Now Dikembe didn't have good footwork on offense, which might give the impression of being slower but he wasn't. When it come to rim protection, Duncan's strength was positioning and intelligence... as well as the whole Spurs team-defense (had to get that in there, lol)... rather than quickness or athleticism. I also think he had a lower/stronger center of gravity, which helped him defend post-moves well.

[penbeast0]

From what I remember, prime Duncan was quicker and more athletic than either Mutombo or Gobert, as was Mourning who is in 2B with Duncan. The difference between the 2 level and the 3 level is small and I could see him slotting into 3 quite comfortably.

Sorry, but to my eye Mutombo and Gobert were both quicker and more athletic than Duncan at the same ages, especially Mutombo, who was on a different level as an athlete. Are you sure you aren't unintentionally gifting or apportioning some of David Robinson's quickness and athleticism to Tim Duncan because they played together?

Now Dikembe didn't have good footwork on offense, which might give the impression of being slower but he wasn't. When it come to rim protection, Duncan's strength was positioning and intelligence... as well as the whole Spurs team-defense (had to get that in there, lol)... rather than quickness or athleticism. I also think he had a lower/stronger center of gravity, which helped him defend post-moves well.

I actually found Mutombo's defensive footwork quite impressive, but I could be wrong and have my memories colored by some sort of success bias.

[falcolombardi]

When I'd track players I'd list ranges as 8,8/16,16/23. 6feet is little bit less it's 2,5 meter. So, it's not a special take for here.

A shot from 2.5 meter is not a shot at the rim anymore, not even close.

Even with 6ft data, Giannis's only up-tier year is this season, rest are still close, all 17,18,19,21.

2022 isn't even Giannis best season by 6 feet data - 2020 is clearly the best.

The rest aren't close, Durant's best season is worse than Giannis worst.

If we're including context into it, Durant is playing one of the worst defensive teams in the league past two years while Giannis been in the one of the best past 4/5 years.

That's why I included Warriors years when Durant played with the best defensive roster in the league. He didn't come close to Giannis in any of these years.

Well, where should we put 3 meter lay-ups or hooks/floaters then?

You didn't get it. 2020 Giannis was the best of him, but year by year 2022 Yannis only the player who was another tier as a rim protector than Durant. You can't take within %5 differences as another tier here and Durant had a multiple years with better line than Yannis.

Besides 17, Warriors were not elite, defensively and even with 17 Warriors some of the Bucks teams were better than them defensively.

My main point was that If KD was close or comparable player regardinng the rim protection to Yannis, then Yannis has no job in that list. Could you compare Yannis and Gobert or even his teammate Lopez.

off topic but why do you keep saying yannis instead of giannis

[70sFan]

From what I remember, prime Duncan was quicker and more athletic than either Mutombo or Gobert, as was Mourning who is in 2B with Duncan. The difference between the 2 level and the 3 level is small and I could see him slotting into 3 quite comfortably.

Sorry, but to my eye Mutombo and Gobert were both quicker and more athletic than Duncan at the same ages, especially Mutombo, who was on a different level as an athlete. Are you sure you aren't unintentionally gifting or apportioning some of David Robinson's quickness and athleticism to Tim Duncan because they played together?

Now Dikembe didn't have good footwork on offense, which might give the impression of being slower but he wasn't. When it come to rim protection, Duncan's strength was positioning and intelligence... as well as the whole Spurs team-defense (had to get that in there, lol)... rather than quickness or athleticism. I also think he had a lower/stronger center of gravity, which helped him defend post-moves well.

I actually found Mutombo's defensive footwork quite impressive, but I could be wrong and have my memories colored by some sort of success bias.

I don't think you are wrong at all, I also find Mutombo's footwork quite impressive. He wasn't slow footed in his physical peak either, but peak Duncan was on another level.

[LAL1947]

Sorry, but to my eye Mutombo and Gobert were both quicker and more athletic than Duncan at the same ages, especially Mutombo, who was on a different level as an athlete. Are you sure you aren't unintentionally gifting or apportioning some of David Robinson's quickness and athleticism to Tim Duncan because they played together?

Now Dikembe didn't have good footwork on offense, which might give the impression of being slower but he wasn't. When it come to rim protection, Duncan's strength was positioning and intelligence... as well as the whole Spurs team-defense (had to get that in there, lol)... rather than quickness or athleticism. I also think he had a lower/stronger center of gravity, which helped him defend post-moves well.

I actually found Mutombo's defensive footwork quite impressive, but I could be wrong and have my memories colored by some sort of success bias.

I don't think you are wrong at all, I also find Mutombo's footwork quite impressive. He wasn't slow footed in his physical peak either, but peak Duncan was on another level.

Well, I was referring to Mutombo's footwork on offense, which was not very good. The reason I mentioned it is to suggest that the way Mutombo played offense (with bad footwork) may have made it seem to some that he was as unathletic as Duncan. But Mutombo was a different player on defense and was a better rim protector IMO, not only because he was longer but because he was quicker and more athletic too.

[70sFan]

You really watched Mutombo over at Denver and then thought to yourself, Timmy Duncan is faster and can get off the floor better than that Mutombo? Man, you sure do have some Timmy-tinted sunglasses on. What are you, in love with him or something?

Watch on YouTube

Thank you, I've never watched Mutombo highlights before. Now you changed my opinion completely, I finally realized that Duncan sucked.

I should have known that watching 2:50 video is a better way to evaluate players than tracking ~30 full games with noting tendencies, errors and high value plays, which I have been doing in last years. Now I know that I did all of this for nothing...

[70sFan]

I actually found Mutombo's defensive footwork quite impressive, but I could be wrong and have my memories colored by some sort of success bias.

I don't think you are wrong at all, I also find Mutombo's footwork quite impressive. He wasn't slow footed in his physical peak either, but peak Duncan was on another level.

Well, I was referring to Mutombo's footwork on offense, which was not very good. The reason I mentioned it is to suggest that the way Mutombo played offense (with bad footwork) may have made it seem to some that he was as unathletic as Duncan. But Mutombo was a different player on defense and was a better rim protector IMO, not only because he was longer but because he was quicker and more athletic too.

I think Mutombo is better rim protector, but it's strictly because of his length and ability to time shots inside. It has nothing to do with quickness. Duncan was quick in his physical peak years, someone who remember early 2000s should know that.

[penbeast0]

Let's keep the snark levels down. It's possible to disagree without baiting other posters.

[feyki]

A shot from 2.5 meter is not a shot at the rim anymore, not even close.


2022 isn't even Giannis best season by 6 feet data - 2020 is clearly the best.

The rest aren't close, Durant's best season is worse than Giannis worst.


That's why I included Warriors years when Durant played with the best defensive roster in the league. He didn't come close to Giannis in any of these years.

Well, where should we put 3 meter lay-ups or hooks/floaters then?

You didn't get it. 2020 Giannis was the best of him, but year by year 2022 Yannis only the player who was another tier as a rim protector than Durant. You can't take within %5 differences as another tier here and Durant had a multiple years with better line than Yannis.

Besides 17, Warriors were not elite, defensively and even with 17 Warriors some of the Bucks teams were better than them defensively.

My main point was that If KD was close or comparable player regardinng the rim protection to Yannis, then Yannis has no job in that list. Could you compare Yannis and Gobert or even his teammate Lopez.

off topic but why do you keep saying yannis instead of giannis

Cause he's Greek.

[falcolombardi]

Well, where should we put 3 meter lay-ups or hooks/floaters then?

You didn't get it. 2020 Giannis was the best of him, but year by year 2022 Yannis only the player who was another tier as a rim protector than Durant. You can't take within %5 differences as another tier here and Durant had a multiple years with better line than Yannis.

Besides 17, Warriors were not elite, defensively and even with 17 Warriors some of the Bucks teams were better than them defensively.

My main point was that If KD was close or comparable player regardinng the rim protection to Yannis, then Yannis has no job in that list. Could you compare Yannis and Gobert or even his teammate Lopez.

off topic but why do you keep saying yannis instead of giannis

Cause he's Greek.

is that the greek pronuntiation? regardless it seems odd to me to write someone name by how it is pronounced rather than by how it is officially written

not saying is wrong. just find it a bit odd