Which player is MVP behind Embiid, Jokic and Giannis?

mdonnelly1989 · Post #1 » by **mdonnelly1989** » Tue Apr 5, 2022 6:37 am

Which player is MVP behind Embiid, Jokic and Giannis?

Fyi, I'm not including Curry simple because of Injury

LukaTheGOAT · Post #2 » by **LukaTheGOAT** » Tue Apr 5, 2022 6:46 am

Ja will end up playing less games this RS than Curry, just saying.

GSP · Post #3 » by **GSP** » Tue Apr 5, 2022 7:01 am

Jayson......

Jaivl · Post #4 » by **Jaivl** » Tue Apr 5, 2022 7:29 am

Tatum if no Curry

dygaction · Post #5 » by **dygaction** » Tue Apr 5, 2022 7:30 am

Jaylen......
In the past 10 games, Jaylen had 27.4/5.7/3.3 with 55.1/47.5/81.3 shooting. If others can start late, why not Jaylen?

The High Cyde · Post #6 » by **The High Cyde** » Tue Apr 5, 2022 7:41 am

Because he’s not the MVP of his own team, Tatum laps him in advanced stats, and that’s with the other teams defense keyed in on him.

It’s Tatum or Luka, both started off slow as molasses, but the season is a marathon, and they’re finishing strong.

I’d probably give it to Luka, his playmaking is just sublime, and I’d take that over Tatum’s defense. I’m glad Tatum has even made this a debate, let’s hope they both start off strong next season.

Special shout out to Trae whose having an amazing season, but that defense…it’ll hold him back, but he’s going to be dynamite in this league.

70sFan · Post #7 » by **70sFan** » Tue Apr 5, 2022 7:44 am

Probably still Curry, though Luka and Tatum should be a very serious candidates.

HeartBreakKid · Post #8 » by **HeartBreakKid** » Tue Apr 5, 2022 7:49 am

I voted Tatum but didn't notice Luka until it was too late. I'd give it to Luka for now.

ACMFFL · Post #9 » by **ACMFFL** » Tue Apr 5, 2022 8:07 am

Definitely both Luka and Tatum.

RCM88x · Post #10 » by **RCM88x** » Tue Apr 5, 2022 3:13 pm

Luka for me.

Run DLC · Post #11 » by **Run DLC** » Wed Apr 6, 2022 1:24 am

Kevin “GOAT” Durant

Dutchball97 · Post #12 » by **Dutchball97** » Wed Apr 6, 2022 2:05 pm

I'm simply not too convinced by Luka's impact. Without deeper analysis you see Luka putting up big stats without other clear stars on his team and it is easy to give him all the credit and look at him on the same level as Jokic, Embiid and Giannis but his impact simply does not seem to reflect this. Luka is taking a lot of shots but his TS% of 56.9% is pretty bang average considering the average on the Mavs is 56.7% and the league average is 56.5%. It also seems like for how good of a playmaker Luka is, the team moves the ball around better with Luka off the court. Then you see the Mavs winning with defense, which Luka plays a part in but definitely isn't the main reason for. The offense only being 18th definitely seems low when looking at Jokic having the Nuggets as the current 6th best offense with an even worse supporting cast.

I guess nobody is bothered by Luka being 38th in WS/48, 19th in EPM and 32nd in LEBRON either? All while only playing 62 games (less than Curry who isn't even included here due to too many missed games).

Can someone explain what I'm missing?

dygaction · Post #13 » by **dygaction** » Wed Apr 6, 2022 5:08 pm

Dutchball97 wrote:I'm simply not too convinced by Luka's impact. Without deeper analysis you see Luka putting up big stats without other clear stars on his team and it is easy to give him all the credit and look at him on the same level as Jokic, Embiid and Giannis but his impact simply does not seem to reflect this. Luka is taking a lot of shots but his TS% of 56.9% is pretty bang average considering the average on the Mavs is 56.7% and the league average is 56.5%. It also seems like for how good of a playmaker Luka is, the team moves the ball around better with Luka off the court. Then you see the Mavs winning with defense, which Luka plays a part in but definitely isn't the main reason for. The offense only being 18th definitely seems low when looking at Jokic having the Nuggets as the current 6th best offense with an even worse supporting cast.

I guess nobody is bothered by Luka being 38th in WS/48, 19th in EPM and 32nd in LEBRON either? All while only playing 62 games (less than Curry who isn't even included here due to too many missed games).

Can someone explain what I'm missing?

Sounds to me you are missing lots of good games.

Dutchball97 · Post #14 » by **Dutchball97** » Wed Apr 6, 2022 5:26 pm

dygaction wrote:
Dutchball97 wrote:I'm simply not too convinced by Luka's impact. Without deeper analysis you see Luka putting up big stats without other clear stars on his team and it is easy to give him all the credit and look at him on the same level as Jokic, Embiid and Giannis but his impact simply does not seem to reflect this. Luka is taking a lot of shots but his TS% of 56.9% is pretty bang average considering the average on the Mavs is 56.7% and the league average is 56.5%. It also seems like for how good of a playmaker Luka is, the team moves the ball around better with Luka off the court. Then you see the Mavs winning with defense, which Luka plays a part in but definitely isn't the main reason for. The offense only being 18th definitely seems low when looking at Jokic having the Nuggets as the current 6th best offense with an even worse supporting cast.

I guess nobody is bothered by Luka being 38th in WS/48, 19th in EPM and 32nd in LEBRON either? All while only playing 62 games (less than Curry who isn't even included here due to too many missed games).

Can someone explain what I'm missing?

Sounds to me you are missing lots of good games.

I've watched plenty of Mavs games this season with the main reason for that being I enjoy watching Luka play but when Luka's efficiency is league average, his team does pretty well without him and his advanced stats don't paint the most convincing picture either isn't it fair to ask questions about his impact? I'm not even trying to imply Luka isn't top 10 to be clear but I do think a couple others outside the top 3 like Tatum, Curry and Gobert could be argued to be more impactful than Luka this season.

dygaction · Post #15 » by **dygaction** » Wed Apr 6, 2022 6:46 pm

Dutchball97 wrote:
dygaction wrote:
Dutchball97 wrote:I'm simply not too convinced by Luka's impact. Without deeper analysis you see Luka putting up big stats without other clear stars on his team and it is easy to give him all the credit and look at him on the same level as Jokic, Embiid and Giannis but his impact simply does not seem to reflect this. Luka is taking a lot of shots but his TS% of 56.9% is pretty bang average considering the average on the Mavs is 56.7% and the league average is 56.5%. It also seems like for how good of a playmaker Luka is, the team moves the ball around better with Luka off the court. Then you see the Mavs winning with defense, which Luka plays a part in but definitely isn't the main reason for. The offense only being 18th definitely seems low when looking at Jokic having the Nuggets as the current 6th best offense with an even worse supporting cast.

I guess nobody is bothered by Luka being 38th in WS/48, 19th in EPM and 32nd in LEBRON either? All while only playing 62 games (less than Curry who isn't even included here due to too many missed games).

Can someone explain what I'm missing?

Sounds to me you are missing lots of good games.

I've watched plenty of Mavs games this season with the main reason for that being I enjoy watching Luka play but when Luka's efficiency is league average, his team does pretty well without him and his advanced stats don't paint the most convincing picture either isn't it fair to ask questions about his impact? I'm not even trying to imply Luka isn't top 10 to be clear but I do think a couple others outside the top 3 like Tatum, Curry and Gobert could be argued to be more impactful than Luka this season.

Fair enough, was joking as you only listed stats.
Certainly Tatum, Curry, and Gobert are also very impactful players and reasonable arguments can be made for them as well.

I think the argument for Luka can be made from as a cook, you can only cook with what you have as raw materials. Mavs wasted all their picks in 2018 and had to improve their roster from a really low position talent wise. For example, if Mavs want to trade for Jaylen Brown + Robert Williams, or Brown+Smart, without giving up Luka, what would Celtics need? Celtics is a team built with great talents: Brown (1st round #3, best pick of his year), Tatum (1st round #3, best pick of his year), Horford (1st round #3), Smart (1st round #6). Sadly, Mavs don't have a single first round picked player in their current main rotation besides Luka. For himself, each year Luka added something important to his game - 2020 great jump, 2021 post up and mid range, 2022 defense.

This year, Mavs are dealing with a new coach, new defensive focus scheme, a slow-starting, over weight Luka, 3 new players in the starting lineup, and top three paid players (THJ, Dinwiddie, and Bertans) together with Maxi Kleber off bench. Their bench players are almost as good as any team or even their starters, but starters are not as good as other teams'. Their 2nd and 3rd best players are most likely Dinwiddie and THJ. THJ+Bertans make more money than the entire starting 5.

I also think fans are giving Luka benefit of doubt in the regular season by trusting his performance in playoffs. He averaged 35.7/7.9/10.3 last playoffs facing Kawhi and PG13 with a historic carrying job. That average is higher than KG's career playoff high. At 22, he had 5 playoff games with 40+ points, the same number as Kawhi, Barkley, Bird, and Giannis'. What's scary is that scoring might not be the biggest strength of his game. The team sucked badly whenever Luka took a rest, and Luka was blamed as a ballhog; In regular season now the team can hold its own and Luka is blamed for having a reasonable cast...

sp6r=underrated · Post #16 » by **sp6r=underrated** » Wed Apr 6, 2022 6:50 pm

Tatum is my #4 comfortably.

Curry's missed too many damn games. I'm much more a believer in Gobert than most but the implosion of the Jazz isn't ideal. Luka is the rich man's Ja in that I'm convinced he's going to be an ATG but am skeptical about how well he is really playing this year.