Clippers: Replace Kawhi w/ ’98 Michael Jordan

[Matt15]

Replace Kawhi w/ ’98 Jordan on Clippers. Where would they rank in the West? How far would they go?

[falcolombardi]

which season of kawhi clippers? this one?

i imagine adding 98 jordan straight up would put them in the top 3 of the west easily

[tsherkin]

It'd be really cool to see even that 34/35 year-old Jordan with the more open game of this era. Jordan was a career 32.7% 3pt shooter without much emphasis on the shot (though of course he has a couple years of the pulled-in line padding that), but yeah, I think he could shoot it well enough with practice to be a low-30s guy (which is all you really need to keep a D honest). All-time low turnover rate and just a savagely clever player. He'd be murdering people just the same.

Clippers are a .500 team now. 10th best defense, 6th-worst offense. He obviously improves their offense, regardless, particularly because Kawhi and Paul George either didn't play or played notably less than half the season. So having a good chunk of 98 MJ would be a huge boon to them. I don't think it's any great revelation that they would look a lot better with someone who could command that many possessions and do what he did. He didn't stun with his scoring efficiency, but he took up a huge chunk of possessions for the team and almost never turned it over, which is big. And he'd probably be better in the modern environment.

So yeah, no revelations here on my part, I think they'd be a lot better with that version of Jordan on the squad.

[falcolombardi]

i think is clear by default that clippers inprove a lot replacing a injured player with jordan

a more interesting comparision may be if a healthy kawhi inproves them more than 98' jordan would do

[tsherkin]

i think is clear by default that clippers inprove a lot replacing a injured player with jordan

a more interesting comparision may be if a healthy kawhi inproves them more than 98' jordan would do

It is hard to imagine Kawhi improving their D more than Jordan improves their O, you know?

[falcolombardi]

i think is clear by default that clippers inprove a lot replacing a injured player with jordan

a more interesting comparision may be if a healthy kawhi inproves them more than 98' jordan would do

It is hard to imagine Kawhi improving their D more than Jordan improves their O, you know?

if we were talking about peak jordan and kawhi then yeah

but current kawhi is not the same in defense as he was before and 98 jordan is not peak jordan offense

i think 2021 kawhi vs 98 jordan offense is gairly close tbh

[tsherkin]

i think is clear by default that clippers inprove a lot replacing a injured player with jordan

a more interesting comparision may be if a healthy kawhi inproves them more than 98' jordan would do

It is hard to imagine Kawhi improving their D more than Jordan improves their O, you know?

if we were talking about peak jordan and kawhi then yeah

but current kawhi is not the same in defense as he was before and 98 jordan is not peak jordan offense

i think 2021 kawhi vs 98 jordan offense is gairly close tbh

Mmm, maybe. Certainly Jordan wasnt stunning the world with his efficiency jf you dont adjust for the pace and rules differences and all that. I still think he improves their O notably more than Kawhi their D, but I see what you're saying.

[sp6r=underrated]

It'd be really cool to see even that 34/35 year-old Jordan with the more open game of this era. Jordan was a career 32.7% 3pt shooter without much emphasis on the shot (though of course he has a couple years of the pulled-in line padding that), but yeah, I think he could shoot it well enough with practice to be a low-30s guy (which is all you really need to keep a D honest). All-time low turnover rate and just a savagely clever player. He'd be murdering people just the same.

I actually think MJ would get higher than low 30s if he grew up with the shot. He's an 83% ft shooter. His FG% from 16 to the 3 point line is very good. Almost every player with that profile can shoot the 3 at a pretty good clip

[BenoUdrihFTL]

'98 Jordan might've been declined by his own standards but he was still an absolute beast. Regular season BPM of 6.9 would place him 7th in 2022 NBA, ahead of Jimmy Butler (and MVP discussion darlings Ja Morant, Steph Curry, Jayson Tatum) and just below Kevin Durant. Remember BPM is a per-possession stat, '98 Jordan played 3181 RS mins whereas the no one in the top 10 of 2022 BPM has exceeded 2476. '98 Jordan's 7.1 VORP would place 2nd in 2022 and his 15.8 WS would be 1st

Then there's the postseason. '98 Jordan posted a 9.0 BPM over 21 playoff games at 41.5 mins per game (872 total mins played). The only reasonable comp from the 2021 playoffs is FMVP Giannis at 9.9 BPM in 800 mins. Giannis posted a 3.7 WS (.224 WS/48) and 2.4 VORP. '98 Jordan was 4.8 (.265 WS/48) and 2.4, respectively. '98 Bulls defeated the 1.88 SRS Nets in the ECQF, the 2.45 SRS Hornets in the ECSF, the 6.25 SRS Pacers in the ECF and the 5.73 SRS Jazz in the Finals. 2022 Bucks defeated the -0.06 SRS Heat in the ECQF, the 4.24 SRS Nets in the ECSF, the 2.14 SRS Hawks in the ECF and the 5.67 SRS Suns in the Finals

To Tsherkin's point about the 3pt shooting; Jordan shot better from 3 the more he shot from 3. Ignoring the shortened line years, he had two seasons attempting over two per game: in 1990 he shot 38% (league avg 33%) on 3.0 attempts and in 1993 he was 35% (league avg 34%) on 2.9 attempts per game. The year in question, 1998, he hit 24%, but tbf that was the first season after moving the line back so Jordan went from 3.6 attempts in 1997 down to 1.5 in 1998, a seeming over-correction of shot-selection. Anyways, the idea is that the 90s Bulls weren't exactly designing their triangle offense around getting iso midrange god Jordan open looks from 3, so much of Jordan's 3PA came as a last resort in desperation beat-the-buzzer scenarios (just halfcourt heaves alone -- which players don't attempt today -- significantly impact your %s when you're taking fewer than two 3s per game). Low % attempts for anyone. So the higher the volume, the less less of an anchor those desperation shots play on on his overall %s, the more accurate a picture you get of his actual ability to hit 3s. In 2022 NBA, a Michael Jordan that attempts 4-7 per game is probably hitting at least league average

So to answer the question, I'd take the 2022 Clips with '98 Jordan as a pretty strong favorite to win the West

[RoyceDa59]

‘98 Jordan makes them the best team in the league.

[HeartBreakKid]

Hm...I guess they'd be about as good as the last time the Clippers were healthy. I don't think replacing Kawhi Leonard with MJ would do much for the Clippers outside of not being injury prone.

[Owly]

It'd be really cool to see even that 34/35 year-old Jordan with the more open game of this era. Jordan was a career 32.7% 3pt shooter without much emphasis on the shot (though of course he has a couple years of the pulled-in line padding that), but yeah, I think he could shoot it well enough with practice to be a low-30s guy (which is all you really need to keep a D honest). All-time low turnover rate and just a savagely clever player. He'd be murdering people just the same.

I actually think MJ would get higher than low 30s if he grew up with the shot. He's an 83% ft shooter. His FG% from 16 to the 3 point line is very good. Almost every player with that profile can shoot the 3 at a pretty good clip

It's worth noting that the shortened 3pt line from 94-95 to 96-97 inflates his career 3pt% and his 16ft-3pt percentages.

Granting caveats about not a point of focus, the potential for some shot clock grenades [though only one "heave" recorded in the final three years, the only part of this sample available] etc, shooting from the full 3pt distance he's .288477712 (343 of 1189).

This isn't to speculate on what an alternate context Jordan might have been, just the numbers on what he shot as it happens to have happened.

[The High Cyde]

Hm...I guess they'd be about as good as the last time the Clippers were healthy. I don't think replacing Kawhi Leonard with MJ would do much for the Clippers outside of not being injury prone.

That’s pretty big though, we likely win the title with a healthy Jordan last year.

Of course that’s not saying much, it’s Michael Jordan on the team.

[Ballerhogger]

Best team in the west

[HeartBreakKid]

Hm...I guess they'd be about as good as the last time the Clippers were healthy. I don't think replacing Kawhi Leonard with MJ would do much for the Clippers outside of not being injury prone.

That’s pretty big though, we likely win the title with a healthy Jordan last year.

Of course that’s not saying much, it’s Michael Jordan on the team.

I don't know about that one. The Clippers were plenty beatable last year.

[nzahir]

Clippers are LOADED

Ofc they would be the favorite

Put any top 10 guy on there and they are the favorite

[tsherkin]

It'd be really cool to see even that 34/35 year-old Jordan with the more open game of this era. Jordan was a career 32.7% 3pt shooter without much emphasis on the shot (though of course he has a couple years of the pulled-in line padding that), but yeah, I think he could shoot it well enough with practice to be a low-30s guy (which is all you really need to keep a D honest). All-time low turnover rate and just a savagely clever player. He'd be murdering people just the same.

I actually think MJ would get higher than low 30s if he grew up with the shot. He's an 83% ft shooter. His FG% from 16 to the 3 point line is very good. Almost every player with that profile can shoot the 3 at a pretty good clip

Yes, I am inclined to agree, but was just being conservative