How many years of Hakeem would you take over Peak Kobe?

Matt15 · Post #1 » by **Matt15** » Sat Apr 9, 2022 10:49 am

Title

70sFan · Post #2 » by **70sFan** » Sat Apr 9, 2022 11:14 am

1993 and 1994, with outside chances for 1989, 1990 and 1995.

No-more-rings · Post #3 » by **No-more-rings** » Sat Apr 9, 2022 12:20 pm

I’d say 93-95.

ardee · Post #4 » by **ardee** » Sat Apr 9, 2022 12:21 pm

70sFan wrote:1993 and 1994, with outside chances for 1989, 1990 and 1995.

Honestly that's pretty interesting that you think '95 Hakeem is lower than peak Kobe. I am obviously a huge Kobe guy but it's hard for me to see that argument unless you're REALLY low on Hakeem's RS.

jasonxxx102 · Post #5 » by **jasonxxx102** » Sat Apr 9, 2022 12:50 pm

I would rather have any prime Hakeem year over Kobe.

Hakeem was significantly more impactful and there are plenty of volume scoring guards you can get. There are almost no 7fters who are elite on both ends of the floor

70sFan · Post #6 » by **70sFan** » Sat Apr 9, 2022 1:22 pm

ardee wrote:
70sFan wrote:1993 and 1994, with outside chances for 1989, 1990 and 1995.

Honestly that's pretty interesting that you think '95 Hakeem is lower than peak Kobe. I am obviously a huge Kobe guy but it's hard for me to see that argument unless you're REALLY low on Hakeem's RS.

I think that Hakeem was better in postseason than Kobe ever was, but yes I am very low on his RS. I might still go with Hakeem here,but we should take into account that Hakeem underperformed in RS heavily, causing Houston to have extremely tough schedule in the playoffs.

At the same time, I think 1989 and 1990 are very overlooked versions of Olajuwon. He peaked on defensive end during that time and his motor was just unreal. Possibly the perfect body for an all-time great defensive player, the most agressive defender I've ever seen as well.

McBubbles · Post #7 » by **McBubbles** » Sat Apr 9, 2022 2:28 pm

1990, 1993-1995

sp6r=underrated · Post #8 » by **sp6r=underrated** » Sat Apr 9, 2022 6:43 pm

1993 and 1994 for me.

ardee wrote:
70sFan wrote:1993 and 1994, with outside chances for 1989, 1990 and 1995.

Honestly that's pretty interesting that you think '95 Hakeem is lower than peak Kobe. I am obviously a huge Kobe guy but it's hard for me to see that argument unless you're REALLY low on Hakeem's RS.

I'm in the anti-1995 camp. Hakeem's rebounding and defense dropped off that year. Honestly that season only gets regarded the way it does because of the 1995 WCF.

henshao · Post #9 » by **henshao** » Sat Apr 9, 2022 10:54 pm

what do we consider kobe's peak?

No-more-rings · Post #10 » by **No-more-rings** » Sat Apr 9, 2022 11:15 pm

sp6r=underrated wrote:1993 and 1994 for me.

ardee wrote:
70sFan wrote:1993 and 1994, with outside chances for 1989, 1990 and 1995.

Honestly that's pretty interesting that you think '95 Hakeem is lower than peak Kobe. I am obviously a huge Kobe guy but it's hard for me to see that argument unless you're REALLY low on Hakeem's RS.

I'm in the anti-1995 camp. Hakeem's rebounding and defense dropped off that year. Honestly that season only gets regarded the way it does because of the 1995 WCF.

I mean the guy still averaged 33 ppg on good efficiency and almost 5 apg in the playoffs. He was an elite offensive player in the playoffs, and still a good/great defensive center on his way to the title. Sounds like better than peak Kobe to me.

Matt15 · Post #11 » by **Matt15** » Sun Apr 10, 2022 12:33 am

henshao wrote:what do we consider kobe's peak?

2008 if we’re going by the latest PC peaks project.

Ursusamericanus · Post #12 » by **Ursusamericanus** » Sun Apr 10, 2022 1:52 am

1989-1995

bdoody42 · Post #13 » by **bdoody42** » Sun Apr 10, 2022 2:32 am

90,93 & 94 if we are talking regular seasn.

70sFan · Post #14 » by **70sFan** » Sun Apr 10, 2022 6:46 am

sp6r=underrated wrote:1993 and 1994 for me.

ardee wrote:
70sFan wrote:1993 and 1994, with outside chances for 1989, 1990 and 1995.

Honestly that's pretty interesting that you think '95 Hakeem is lower than peak Kobe. I am obviously a huge Kobe guy but it's hard for me to see that argument unless you're REALLY low on Hakeem's RS.

I'm in the anti-1995 camp. Hakeem's rebounding and defense dropped off that year. Honestly that season only gets regarded the way it does because of the 1995 WCF.

I don't think I'd agree, because Hakeem was excellent throughout the whole playoffs, not only WCF.

migya · Post #15 » by **migya** » Sun Apr 10, 2022 10:26 am

Just his defense makes Olajuwon almost as good as Kobe, he was that effective. Being the only offensive good player on his team, Olajuwon did better than Kobe mostly.

henshao · Post #16 » by **henshao** » Sun Apr 10, 2022 3:27 pm

migya wrote:Just his defense makes Olajuwon almost as good as Kobe, he was that effective. Being the only offensive good player on his team, Olajuwon did better than Kobe mostly.

I'm sort of in the same camp...if Hakeem went 4 FGA for a whole season he would still be very highly rated...good volume on good efficiency sort of takes him over the top of Kobe for a lot of years but I haven't looked deeply into it

BenoUdrihFTL · Post #17 » by **BenoUdrihFTL** » Sun Apr 10, 2022 6:35 pm

1986
1987
1988
1989
1990
1993
1994
1995

It's a damn shame that what should have been Olajuwon's early peak years were marred by extraneous circumstances

SinceGatlingWasARookie · Post #18 » by **SinceGatlingWasARookie** » Sun Apr 10, 2022 8:06 pm

Hakeem put up some huge numbers in his one and done playoffs or poor Rocket team. I think Hakeem may have coasted during the regular seasons. If the Rockets had been the 5th seed rather than the 8th seed they might have faced an opponant they could beat in the 1st round when Hakeem got into playoff god mode. But those teams between 1986 and 1994 were not good enough to win in the second round even with Hakeem being in playoff mode and being the best player.

When did compensation for free agents end? Hakeem and Robert Reid should have left the Rockets in the summer of 1987 and gone somewhere to form a super team. Or they should have recruited Barkley and Drexler to join them in Houston. This is what I learned from LeBron, Wade, Bosh.

Or just have John Lucas, Mitchel Wiggins and Lewis Lloyd not do drugs and Ralph Samson not get injured and that team probably wins the 1988, 1989, 1990,1991 championships. 1987 Lakers might be too good. They would need a new point guard for the last 2 championships.

Kobe might have been a better regular season player but Hakeem was the better playoff player. I prefer playoffs. But Hakeem's playoffs were so short but that wasn't Hakeem's fault.

When Hakeem really tries hard he is better than Kobe really trying hard.

henshao · Post #19 » by **henshao** » Mon Apr 11, 2022 12:11 am

SinceGatlingWasARookie wrote:Hakeem put up some huge numbers in his one and done playoffs or poor Rocket team. I think Hakeem may have coasted during the regular seasons. If the Rockets had been the 5th seed rather than the 8th seed they might have faced an opponant they could beat in the 1st round when Hakeem got into playoff god mode. But those teams between 1986 and 1994 were not good enough to win in the second round even with Hakeem being in playoff mode and being the best player.

When did compensation for free agents end? Hakeem and Robert Reid should have left the Rockets in the summer of 1987 and gone somewhere to form a super team. Or they should have recruited Barkley and Drexler to join them in Houston. This is what I learned from LeBron, Wade, Bosh.

Or just have John Lucas, Mitchel Wiggins and Lewis Lloyd not do drugs and Ralph Samson not get injured and that team probably wins the 1988, 1989, 1990,1991 championships. 1987 Lakers might be too good. They would need a new point guard for the last 2 championships.

Kobe might have been a better regular season player but Hakeem was the better playoff player. I prefer playoffs. But Hakeem's playoffs were so short but that wasn't Hakeem's fault.

When Hakeem really tries hard he is better than Kobe really trying hard.

Hakeem had big sentimental ties to Houston, and vice versa...but on the subject, one of my all time favorite what-ifs is if '84 Houston had accepted the offer from Portland, Drexler for Sampson and the Jordan draft pick...

SinceGatlingWasARookie · Post #20 » by **SinceGatlingWasARookie** » Mon Apr 11, 2022 1:29 am

henshao wrote:
SinceGatlingWasARookie wrote:Hakeem put up some huge numbers in his one and done playoffs or poor Rocket team. I think Hakeem may have coasted during the regular seasons. If the Rockets had been the 5th seed rather than the 8th seed they might have faced an opponant they could beat in the 1st round when Hakeem got into playoff god mode. But those teams between 1986 and 1994 were not good enough to win in the second round even with Hakeem being in playoff mode and being the best player.

When did compensation for free agents end? Hakeem and Robert Reid should have left the Rockets in the summer of 1987 and gone somewhere to form a super team. Or they should have recruited Barkley and Drexler to join them in Houston. This is what I learned from LeBron, Wade, Bosh.

Or just have John Lucas, Mitchel Wiggins and Lewis Lloyd not do drugs and Ralph Samson not get injured and that team probably wins the 1988, 1989, 1990,1991 championships. 1987 Lakers might be too good. They would need a new point guard for the last 2 championships.

Kobe might have been a better regular season player but Hakeem was the better playoff player. I prefer playoffs. But Hakeem's playoffs were so short but that wasn't Hakeem's fault.

When Hakeem really tries hard he is better than Kobe really trying hard.

Hakeem had big sentimental ties to Houston, and vice versa...but on the subject, one of my all time favorite what-ifs is if '84 Houston had accepted the offer from Portland, Drexler for Sampson and the Jordan draft pick...

Yes if the Rockets accept that deal they rock. Jordan Drexler is also more entertaining than Sampson. Rodney McCray gets to play power forward instead of small forward and I like McCray better at power forward. I am a big Rober Reid fan, because I was a Celtic fan and appreciated Reid in both 1981 and 1986.

Celtics could not really handle Jordan in 1986 playoffs but won anyway because the Celtic team was so much better than the other Bulls. Sometimes I though Jordan was too much like the elementary school star that did not trust his teamates. I Jordan's defense his teammates weren't trustworthy and Jordan did learn to play within a team concept. Jordan racked up huge assist numbers in his 2 months of playing point guard in I think 1988. Still I fear Jordan being overbearing but I suspect Hakeem and Clyde would be tight with each other and could reduce Jordan's feeling that he had to be the man.

Also on that Rockets team was Craig Ehlo who the Rockets should not have cut.
Drexler vs Jordan in practice would be worth paying money to watch.
Allan Level was a good piece.
Lewis Lloyd was good but should probably be traded because there is no playing time behind Jordan and Drexler. Having Robert Reid means Drexler swings from small forward to off Guard.

I am a fan of Caldwell Jones because of Celtics vs 76ers. Caldwell Jones surprisngly had a lot of years left in him when he was traded for Mitchel Wiigins. You don't trade Caldwell Jones for Mitchell Wiggins if you have Jordan and don't have Sampson. Caldwell woukd be the elder statesman and a guy who knew how a hard grinding defensive team should play because of his experience with the 76ers.

The team's weakness would be outside shooting because neither Jordan, Drexler nor Reid were top level outside shooter.
The team could get a small guard that can defend point guards but is a shooter rather than a playmaker to back up Allen Level.
With McCray, Reid, Drexler and Jordan the team does not need playmaking from their smallest guard.