How many years of Duncan over Peak Giannis?

[No-more-rings]

2002 and 2003, don't really see much of an argument for other years.

Duncan was 2nd in RAPM in 2005, and 1st in 2007 and won the title both years. There’s plenty of reason to think he has a good argument in years beyond 02 and 03. People need to start looking beyond PER, ts%, dunks and whatever else they’re looking at.

2007 you could maybe make an argument for although that is already a stretch imo. It's almost like people forgot Giannis had another MVP level season last year and a dominant run to the title.

2005 is almost laughable to me though. He missed quite a few games in the regular season and then had one of his most mediocre post-season runs in his prime. You wave away all kinds of stats but then put all your stock in RAPM, seems like cherrypicking to me.

I’m not putting all my stock into RAPM, i’m just saying Duncan was better than his box scores might say. Durabilty is a fair thing to bring up, though I’m likely to not hold it too much against him being he played every playoff game, Giannis himself missed 2 playoff games last year that his team won regardless. Can’t imagine the Spurs win 2 games in a conference finals without Duncan.

[Dutchball97]

Duncan was 2nd in RAPM in 2005, and 1st in 2007 and won the title both years. There’s plenty of reason to think he has a good argument in years beyond 02 and 03. People need to start looking beyond PER, ts%, dunks and whatever else they’re looking at.

2007 you could maybe make an argument for although that is already a stretch imo. It's almost like people forgot Giannis had another MVP level season last year and a dominant run to the title.

2005 is almost laughable to me though. He missed quite a few games in the regular season and then had one of his most mediocre post-season runs in his prime. You wave away all kinds of stats but then put all your stock in RAPM, seems like cherrypicking to me.

I’m not putting all my stock into RAPM, i’m just saying Duncan was better than his box scores might say. Durabilty is a fair thing to bring up, though I’m likely to not hold it too much against him being he played every playoff game, Giannis himself missed 2 playoff games last year that his team won regardless. Can’t imagine the Spurs win 2 games in a conference finals without Duncan.

I hope you don't think I'm just blindly picking Giannis over Duncan because of something like PER or BPM. It seems like your method goes along the lines of if you take the player with all the capabilities they had in a specific season and take out the variables of the season (injuries, slumps etc). Correct me if I'm wrong but that way I could see a case for taking the majority of Duncan's prime seasons ahead of Giannis at his best. I just think it is important to also take into account how the season actually played out.

To be fair Giannis does have some asterisk next to every series but the finals last year (bad shooting vs the Heat, arguably outplayed by KD vs the Nets and the 2 missed games vs the Hawks). He also missed some time himself in the regular season, although less so than Duncan. Maybe I'm being a bit too harsh on Duncan's 05 season and it is closer than I initially thought.

[No-more-rings]

2007 you could maybe make an argument for although that is already a stretch imo. It's almost like people forgot Giannis had another MVP level season last year and a dominant run to the title.

2005 is almost laughable to me though. He missed quite a few games in the regular season and then had one of his most mediocre post-season runs in his prime. You wave away all kinds of stats but then put all your stock in RAPM, seems like cherrypicking to me.

I’m not putting all my stock into RAPM, i’m just saying Duncan was better than his box scores might say. Durabilty is a fair thing to bring up, though I’m likely to not hold it too much against him being he played every playoff game, Giannis himself missed 2 playoff games last year that his team won regardless. Can’t imagine the Spurs win 2 games in a conference finals without Duncan.

I hope you don't think I'm just blindly picking Giannis over Duncan because of something like PER or BPM. It seems like your method goes along the lines of if you take the player with all the capabilities they had in a specific season and take out the variables of the season (injuries, slumps etc). Correct me if I'm wrong but that way I could see a case for taking the majority of Duncan's prime seasons ahead of Giannis at his best. I just think it is important to also take into account how the season actually played out.

To be fair Giannis does have some asterisk next to every series but the finals last year (bad shooting vs the Heat, arguably outplayed by KD vs the Nets and the 2 missed games vs the Hawks). He also missed some time himself in the regular season, although less so than Duncan. Maybe I'm being a bit too harsh on Duncan's 05 season and it is closer than I initially thought.

Well I typically rank players by who I think gives me a better shot at a title in a vacuum. I guess I just don’t see most of Duncan’s prime playoff runs being any worse than Giannis. Not that i’d take them all, but i just wanted to push back on your claim that seasons outside of 02 and 03 have no argument.

I’d really like to see Giannis have more runs like last season before I have a definitive view of his peak. If his peak and prime is going to stack up to top 10 greats, he’ll need to do it more than once.

In regards to the claim about PER and stuff, i’m not accusing you specifically, but there definitely is some on here who are in love with his box scores so much that they tend to elevate him into a group that i don’t think he quite belongs yet.

[LAL1947]

It's like people are treating Giannis like some scrub and taking any prime Duncan season over him by default.

This sounds familiar or like deja vue... but with you on the other side of the fence this time.

I like this thread though. Perhaps, the Timmy Dee bias on this board will finally be shown off for what it is. And in good time, once the people who push Timmy over others have passed on and the next generation takes over, I think they will have spirited battles over whether Giannis should take Timmy's spot in the All-Time Top 10, i.e., 10th.

[falcolombardi]

Duncan scored poorly in 2005 playoffs, but he wasn't mediocre at all. He was dominant rebounder during the playoffs and his defense was as good as ever.

Mediocre by his standards though. Duncan's rebounding and defense were good every year so a relatively worse scoring performance makes it overall one of his weaker play-off runs during his prime. Most of all how is Duncan's 05 better than Giannis last year? It's like people are treating Giannis like some scrub and taking any prime Duncan season over him by default.

To be fair though, Giannis didn't face a single strong defensive team outside of Miami (against which he struggled scoring the ball just as much). Phoenix was decent, but nothing special in historical terms and Nets/Hawks were poor defensively.

People often say that Duncan faced mediocre defensive competition in 2005, but even Suns were better than Nets or Hawks. Not to mention that Pistons were on completely another level.

to be fair, other stars are still criticized for bad scoring against great defensive teams

giannis still receives a lot of criticism for his 2019 series vs toronto for example

[JordansBulls]

Over Peak Giannis possibly none but more likely only 2003.

[No-more-rings]

Prior to the finals against the Pistons, Duncan was averaging 25 ppg on 55 ts% in those 1st 3 rounds. The Pistons had a damn tough frontcourt defensively with Ben Wallace, Rasheed Wallace, Mcdyess and Prince. There’s not more than a handful at most bigs who could’ve had their way with a frontcourt like that.

[OdomFan]

1999-2009 easily.

[Laimbeer]

None.

Giannis is a more versatile defender. Also a greater force to deal with offensively.

[70sFan]

None.

Giannis is a more versatile defender. Also a greater force to deal with offensively.

What makes Giannis more versatile defensively?

[AIfan3]

1999, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2007 and maybe 2009.

Duncan stats are rather deceptive. Don't let it fool you..

[70sFan]

People are way too high on 2009 Duncan. He was still superstar that year, but Giannis reached ATG tier for a peak. Older Duncan couldn't touch that level, he wasn't MVP level player anymore.

[falcolombardi]

None.

Giannis is a more versatile defender. Also a greater force to deal with offensively.

What makes Giannis more versatile defensively?

by my admittedly so-so eye test, giannis looks a bit more mobile in space and seems like he can cover ground more quickly in a straight line run, like for a chase down block

not sure if those thinghs alone make him a more versatile defender that duncan tho

[70sFan]

None.

Giannis is a more versatile defender. Also a greater force to deal with offensively.

What makes Giannis more versatile defensively?

by my admittedly so-so eye test, giannis looks a bit more mobile in space and seems like he can cover ground more quickly in a straight line run, like for a chase down block

not sure if those thinghs alone make him a more versatile defender that duncan tho

He's more athletic and a better transition defender, definitely. He can cover more ground at the same time as well, but I'm not sure if he's better perimeter defender. I will take a closer look when I start rewatching peak Duncan games.

People often mistake quickness with versatility. I don't agree that quicker defender is always more versatile. I think Duncan proved he could thrive in a lot of roles. Giannis of course also proved that this season, but I prefer Duncan in most scenarios.

[feyki]

01-05. 5 years of Duncan was at almost top peaks level every each year. Don't think Yannis reached that level. I think he's still a half tier worse player than Peak KG and Duncan was better than that level.