What would 2009 version of LeBron's stat be if he were to play in 1962

[70sFan]

I really don't understand Baylor/James comparison. They are nothing alike, except that both were big and athletic combo forwards.

[falcolombardi]

I really don't understand Baylor/James comparison. They are nothing alike, except that both were big and athletic combo forwards.

that seems similar enough for comparisions tho

otherwise we only would ever compare players identical to each other lol

[70sFan]

I really don't understand Baylor/James comparison. They are nothing alike, except that both were big and athletic combo forwards.

that seems similar enough for comparisions tho

otherwise we only would ever compare players identical to each other lol

Baylor is like a bigger, more inside oriented Kobe Bryant. That's not someone who is close to James in terms of playstyle.

[Mazter]

Elgin Baylor played 3 full seasons before 1962 and 8 seasons after. He wasn't a part-time player, he was a full-time pro who missed games because of military service. Or maybe Kyrie is also part-time player now?

I do not fully agree with Colts point of view, but he does have a point. Not being available and having to do military duties are 2 different things. Kyrie could practice and rest as he wishes, Baylor could rest and practice when his superiors in the army let him. Baylor might have been a full time pro in the rest of his career, but not that season.

I don't think LeBron is a better shooter than Baylor. I wouldn't call him more skilled scorer either. Baylor was truly Kobe-lite, he could create any shot he wanted but he took a lot of inefficient ones, which is why he's not very efficient.

Well, isn't that really the point, Baylor took stupid shot, and LeBron'09 made his. LeBron'09 shot 40.3% just from 16 feet to the 3 point line and was 78% from the FT line. Baylor shot 42.6% in total and was 75.4% from the line. There is no question which version of both players was the better shooter. LeBron was also cruising trough the paint that season as it was his backyard. LeBron born in 1937 would have made it a discussion, LeBron'09 put in 1962 shouldn't even be debated.

LeBron was taller, bigger, faster, better finisher than both Kobe in 2006 and Harden in 2019, yet he never touched 35 ppg. It doesn't work that way, Baylor had different style suited for volume shooting. I don't see James shooting more than 25 FGA in any era.

He averaged 24 FGA/100 in each of his season, How would he not shoot 25 times in an era where all superstars played 100+ possessions? Especially given that he has superior athleticism, better conditioning, more practice time, more rest time and analytically more advanced than the others. He is a 25 year old with 6 years full time training and playing in a 95% semi pro league. His efficiency is way higher than 9 out of 10 of his teammates on any roster and he knows this. He would shoot 35 times at least, excluding FT's.

[70sFan]

I do not fully agree with Colts point of view, but he does have a point. Not being available and having to do military duties are 2 different things. Kyrie could practice and rest as he wishes, Baylor could rest and practice when his superiors in the army let him. Baylor might have been a full time pro in the rest of his career, but not that season.

Then call him who he was - pro player who missed significant part of the season due to off-court reasons. Note that the original post implies that even semi-pro player could average 38 ppg in that season. Baylor was full pro player in all other seasons and he never reached that mark, even though some of his teams played at higher pace than in 1962.

Well, isn't that really the point, Baylor took stupid shot, and LeBron'09 made his. LeBron'09 shot 40.3% just from 16 feet to the 3 point line and was 78% from the FT line. Baylor shot 42.6% in total and was 75.4% from the line. There is no question which version of both players was the better shooter. LeBron was also cruising trough the paint that season as it was his backyard. LeBron born in 1937 would have made it a discussion, LeBron'09 put in 1962 shouldn't even be debated.

I'm afraid your data are wrong - LeBron made 38.8% of his shots from 16-3P range. He's also 34.4% three point shooter and 28.6% from 10-16 feet. LeBron wasn't a good shooter at this point of his career. I don't know where you got 40% mark from. LeBron averaged 35.7% from outside 10 feet in 2009.

His FT% is also an outlier, by far the best of his career. James is a worse FT shooter than Baylor for their careers. 2008-10 James was clearly a worse shooter than 1961-63 Baylor for a bigger sample (75% vs 79%).

About FG% as an indicator for shooting ability - 2006 Kobe shot only 45% from the field vs 2009 LeBron's 49%. Yet when you look at shooting charts, Kobe was significantly better shooter than that version of James. I think there are a lot of questions who is the better shooter. I don't see Baylor scoring only 35.7% outside 10 feet like James did in 2009, given his shooting selection.

He averaged 24 FGA/100 in each of his season, How would he not shoot 25 times in an era where all superstars played 100+ possessions?

Because you don't understand how 1960s basketball was played. No player shot on comparable per possession volume back then as modern players do now. You can't just make linear adjustment for pace and call it a day. Wilt was criticized heavily for his volume scoring in 1962, but he actually had lower usage than a lot of stars now.

I do think James would be able to shoot over 25 FGA in 1962 if he wanted to, but 35 FGA is extremely unrealistic.

[dygaction]

I do not fully agree with Colts point of view, but he does have a point. Not being available and having to do military duties are 2 different things. Kyrie could practice and rest as he wishes, Baylor could rest and practice when his superiors in the army let him. Baylor might have been a full time pro in the rest of his career, but not that season.

Then call him who he was - pro player who missed significant part of the season due to off-court reasons. Note that the original post implies that even semi-pro player could average 38 ppg in that season. Baylor was full pro player in all other seasons and he never reached that mark, even though some of his teams played at higher pace than in 1962.

Well, isn't that really the point, Baylor took stupid shot, and LeBron'09 made his. LeBron'09 shot 40.3% just from 16 feet to the 3 point line and was 78% from the FT line. Baylor shot 42.6% in total and was 75.4% from the line. There is no question which version of both players was the better shooter. LeBron was also cruising trough the paint that season as it was his backyard. LeBron born in 1937 would have made it a discussion, LeBron'09 put in 1962 shouldn't even be debated.

I'm afraid your data are wrong - LeBron made 38.8% of his shots from 16-3P range. He's also 34.4% three point shooter and 28.6% from 10-16 feet. LeBron wasn't a good shooter at this point of his career. I don't know where you got 40% mark from. LeBron averaged 35.7% from outside 10 feet in 2009.

His FT% is also an outlier, by far the best of his career. James is a worse FT shooter than Baylor for their careers. 2008-10 James was clearly a worse shooter than 1961-63 Baylor for a bigger sample (75% vs 79%).

About FG% as an indicator for shooting ability - 2006 Kobe shot only 45% from the field vs 2009 LeBron's 49%. Yet when you look at shooting charts, Kobe was significantly better shooter than that version of James. I think there are a lot of questions who is the better shooter. I don't see Baylor scoring only 35.7% outside 10 feet like James did in 2009, given his shooting selection.

He averaged 24 FGA/100 in each of his season, How would he not shoot 25 times in an era where all superstars played 100+ possessions?

Because you don't understand how 1960s basketball was played. No player shot on comparable per possession volume back then as modern players do now. You can't just make linear adjustment for pace and call it a day. Wilt was criticized heavily for his volume scoring in 1962, but he actually had lower usage than a lot of stars now.

I do think James would be able to shoot over 25 FGA in 1962 if he wanted to, but 35 FGA is extremely unrealistic.

Why could not James shoot over 30 when Baylor did 30fga in 61, Wilt did 40fga in 62? Is it because he would not have stamina to play that long or he would not be good enough to warrant that many shots? Tom Heinsohn shot 20fga in 30 min and West as a PG shot 24fga. If LeBron were not to tasked to make 15apg, it would be strange to not shoot well above 30apg. He has the talent and stamina to challenge Wilt's 50ppg with additional advantage of having ball in his hand.

[Mazter]

I'm afraid your data are wrong - LeBron made 38.8% of his shots from 16-3P range. He's also 34.4% three point shooter and 28.6% from 10-16 feet. LeBron wasn't a good shooter at this point of his career. I don't know where you got 40% mark from. LeBron averaged 35.7% from outside 10 feet in 2009.

His FT% is also an outlier, by far the best of his career. James is a worse FT shooter than Baylor for their careers. 2008-10 James was clearly a worse shooter than 1961-63 Baylor for a bigger sample (75% vs 79%).

Both our data seems to be right, after checking it again the 40.3% is for RS + PS, just didn't realised it before. But even 39% is well enough to be at least on the same level with Baylor. I believe this is a 1962 against 2009 comparison. Don't see any any reason to bring other seasons into it. It's not relevant.

Because you don't understand how 1960s basketball was played. No player shot on comparable per possession volume back then as modern players do now. You can't just make linear adjustment for pace and call it a day. Wilt was criticized heavily for his volume scoring in 1962, but he actually had lower usage than a lot of stars now.

I would tread very carefull with these kind of assumptions. Neither do you know me nor do you know what I know or don't understand. Everything is an assumption and guessing based on opinion anyways. And your guess or opinion is as good as mine.

Generally I find it that you keep looking for little things to justify your opinion. I mean, let's say Baylor'62 (and that's a big if, the stats don't really support it) was (a bit of) a better shooter. LeBron'09 is bigger, faster, more explosive, stronger, has more knowledge, no financial care, doesn't have to work 40+ hours, better conditioned, had a longer shooting range and was a far more superior in the paint. The difference in shooting is absolutely no reason whatsoever to even think that LeBron couldn't average 40 or even 50+. One other sure negative is the officiating, but |I'm sure he would be smart enough to figure it out before the start of the season and otherwise adapt along the way.

The big question if he could, is would he. Seeing the quality of the other tier and bench players, I would say, hell yeah. I mean, nobody goes back to Wilt's 50 ppg season and gun for a modest 30-35. And he did average 38.5 on 59.7 TS against a -6.4 defense in the Conference Finals. So ego wise, it's all good with LeBron'09.

[70sFan]

I do not fully agree with Colts point of view, but he does have a point. Not being available and having to do military duties are 2 different things. Kyrie could practice and rest as he wishes, Baylor could rest and practice when his superiors in the army let him. Baylor might have been a full time pro in the rest of his career, but not that season.

Then call him who he was - pro player who missed significant part of the season due to off-court reasons. Note that the original post implies that even semi-pro player could average 38 ppg in that season. Baylor was full pro player in all other seasons and he never reached that mark, even though some of his teams played at higher pace than in 1962.

Well, isn't that really the point, Baylor took stupid shot, and LeBron'09 made his. LeBron'09 shot 40.3% just from 16 feet to the 3 point line and was 78% from the FT line. Baylor shot 42.6% in total and was 75.4% from the line. There is no question which version of both players was the better shooter. LeBron was also cruising trough the paint that season as it was his backyard. LeBron born in 1937 would have made it a discussion, LeBron'09 put in 1962 shouldn't even be debated.

I'm afraid your data are wrong - LeBron made 38.8% of his shots from 16-3P range. He's also 34.4% three point shooter and 28.6% from 10-16 feet. LeBron wasn't a good shooter at this point of his career. I don't know where you got 40% mark from. LeBron averaged 35.7% from outside 10 feet in 2009.

His FT% is also an outlier, by far the best of his career. James is a worse FT shooter than Baylor for their careers. 2008-10 James was clearly a worse shooter than 1961-63 Baylor for a bigger sample (75% vs 79%).

About FG% as an indicator for shooting ability - 2006 Kobe shot only 45% from the field vs 2009 LeBron's 49%. Yet when you look at shooting charts, Kobe was significantly better shooter than that version of James. I think there are a lot of questions who is the better shooter. I don't see Baylor scoring only 35.7% outside 10 feet like James did in 2009, given his shooting selection.

He averaged 24 FGA/100 in each of his season, How would he not shoot 25 times in an era where all superstars played 100+ possessions?

Because you don't understand how 1960s basketball was played. No player shot on comparable per possession volume back then as modern players do now. You can't just make linear adjustment for pace and call it a day. Wilt was criticized heavily for his volume scoring in 1962, but he actually had lower usage than a lot of stars now.

I do think James would be able to shoot over 25 FGA in 1962 if he wanted to, but 35 FGA is extremely unrealistic.

Why could not James shoot over 30 when Baylor did 30fga in 61, Wilt did 40fga in 62? Is it because he would not have stamina to play that long or he would not be good enough to warrant that many shots? Tom Heinsohn shot 20fga in 30 min and West as a PG shot 24fga. If LeBron were not to tasked to make 15apg, it would be strange to not shoot well above 30apg. He has the talent and stamina to challenge Wilt's 50ppg with additional advantage of having ball in his hand.

Cause coaches didn't allow the same usage as they do now. I'm not saying it's impossible, but it's not likely. We've never seen LeBron shooting as much as the highest volume players of his era.

[70sFan]

Baylor was most likely above 39% from outside the paint. Otherwise he wouldn't be as efficient.

I won't carry this discussion forever, just keep in mind that James was bigger, more athletic, stronger and a better scorer than Harden or Kobe, but he didn't average 35 ppg even once in his career. He also led the league in scoring only once in his whole career. Yet you believe that he'd become someone he never was and start shooting as much as Wilt did in outlier season.