2009 Mo Williams vs 2022 Jalen Brunson

[Colbinii]

I thought this was an interesting comparison.

[tsherkin]

Mo Williams in 09 felt a little "Mike James with the Raptors" to me. 43.6% shooting on what was at the time a career-high 3PA/g? Similar season the next year, then never showed anything like that ever again. The only two seasons of 39%+ from three in his career.

Jalen Brunson, leastwise in the RS, wasn't even as productive as Williams that year. He's shooting a little more, so he's scoring more. His PER100 passing is similar. He's actually shooting several percent WORSE from 3 than in 2021 on similar volume and his relative efficiency is worse, for what that's worth.

Mo Williams was on his third-straight season of 17+ ppg. I dunno that this quite tracks.

If you focus on the 5 playoff games he's playing, he's got an elevation in minutes and shooting volume and is getting a bit better whistle action from the refs but he isn't dominating with his three the way Mo did.

Where do you draw the similarities?

[SeattleJazzFan]

i'd rather have brunson. the numbers are surprisingly similar, but brunson gets the edge because he's bigger.

[Doctor MJ]

I thought this was an interesting comparison.

I think the thing to remember is that Mo Williams was someone who came to prominence because he worked well playing off of LeBron whereas Brunson's come to prominence with his on-ball play.

Using bkref's +/- data, here's how Williams in 2009 compares to Brunson this year with and without the alphas they play with.

Williams with LeBron: +15.2 per 100 possessions, over 2217 minutes
Williams w/out LeBron: -2.7, over 616.

Brunson with Luka: +3.9, over 1316
Brunson w/out Luka: +4.9, over 1208

[tsherkin]

I thought this was an interesting comparison.

I think the thing to remember is that Mo Williams was someone who came to prominence because he worked well playing off of LeBron whereas Brunson's come to prominence with his on-ball play.

Using bkref's +/- data, here's how Williams in 2009 compares to Brunson this year with and without the alphas they play with.

Williams with LeBron: +15.2 per 100 possessions, over 2217 minutes
Williams w/out LeBron: -2.7, over 616.

Brunson with Luka: +3.9, over 1316
Brunson w/out Luka: +4.9, over 1208

Attaching on to this...

Brunson and Doncic are #1 and #2 in the playoffs in drives, at 23.6 and 23.5 per game, respectively. This is about Mo Williams, but the point is that he's doing a lot on-ball, as you've noted. He's driving a lot, he's creating plenty for himself, not just hanging around and waiting for Lebron to skip him an open look.

Brunson is shooting 13.0 FGA/g off of them at 52.3%, drawing2 FTA/g on those drives. He's posting 16.4 ppg (basically Mo's entire scoring average) off of the drives. Brunson's posting 32.2 pass percentage and producing 2.0 assists off of them.

He's very much doing things Mo Williams could never have done, and stylistically separating himself from 09 Mo.

[falcolombardi]

I thought this was an interesting comparison.

I think the thing to remember is that Mo Williams was someone who came to prominence because he worked well playing off of LeBron whereas Brunson's come to prominence with his on-ball play.

Using bkref's +/- data, here's how Williams in 2009 compares to Brunson this year with and without the alphas they play with.

Williams with LeBron: +15.2 per 100 possessions, over 2217 minutes
Williams w/out LeBron: -2.7, over 616.

Brunson with Luka: +3.9, over 1316
Brunson w/out Luka: +4.9, over 1208

are you low on mo because of that or impressed with him as a off ball player?

[Doctor MJ]

I thought this was an interesting comparison.

I think the thing to remember is that Mo Williams was someone who came to prominence because he worked well playing off of LeBron whereas Brunson's come to prominence with his on-ball play.

Using bkref's +/- data, here's how Williams in 2009 compares to Brunson this year with and without the alphas they play with.

Williams with LeBron: +15.2 per 100 possessions, over 2217 minutes
Williams w/out LeBron: -2.7, over 616.

Brunson with Luka: +3.9, over 1316
Brunson w/out Luka: +4.9, over 1208

are you low on mo because of that or impressed with him as a off ball player?

Both I suppose. I think the Cavs' supporting cast from this era doesn't get enough respect because people mistook great fit with LeBron doing everything himself...but at the same time, the Mavs likely wouldn't have gotten that seed "they had no business getting" if Mo were in Brunson's place.

I will also say, in my dream scenario for off-ball players, you're talking about guys taller than 6'1" who have the capacity for great defense, and that's not Mo, so I'm not saying Mo should be seen as a remarkably great off-ball player. In the end, that all-star selection is not something I'd want to try to justify.

[trex_8063]

i'd rather have brunson. the numbers are surprisingly similar, but brunson gets the edge because he's bigger.

.....and better on defense.
I'd go with Brunson, too. He's really turning into a nice player; much better than his daddy ever was.

[RCM88x]

Mo probably had "better impact" in his role that season than Jalen has had, however Brunson is certainly more capable of producing on his own than Mo ever was even at this best.

Both guys are probably well suited for their current spots than they would be should they swap. Not really confident either way here. I think if Mo was transported to todays game he would probably be a bit more valued than he was then with his off ball shooting ability. Granted the playoffs have consistently shown the value of on-ball creators increases compared to the regular season.

Need to see a bit more of Brunson to understand if these 5 games have just been a fluke or if he's actually a guy who can be a dependable #2 on a title contender, since Mo failed to do so in a the few situations he was in.

If Mo played in todays game I'd probably expect him to be more of a Seth Curry type of player and a "small" SG than a true PG like Brunson.

[Statlanta]

Brunson all day every day.