David Robinson 1998-2011

[migya]

Robinson was drafted in 1987 and started his career in 1990 at 24 years old. He finished his career in 2003 at age 37. If he got drafted in 1997, 1st pick for the Spurs instead of Duncan, how does his career turn out?

Does he rule the 2000s like Duncan did?

Does he get mvps and championships and how many?

Is he ranked higher alltime?


With better teammates than he had in the 1990s, like Parker, Ginobili and Bowen, his chances of winning championships as the star are much better.

Assume same roster changes and everything basically the same.

[70sFan]

So he'd play with his older version in 1999? If yes, then 1991 Admiral could win the title with the Spurs. If not, there is no case for that.

1993-95 Robinson gets no ring in 2001-03 period. I can't imagine him doing a better job than Duncan on offensive end during that period and Spurs needed Timmy's inside pressence desperatly.

1996 with 2004 is no ring, because Parker/Manu weren't ready yet.

No ring in 2005 as he missed whole season in 1997. Has a case for ring in 2006 with higher seed (1998 Robinson was better in RS than Duncan), but again - 1998 Robinson wasn't capable of doing what Duncan did against the Mavs.

I think they could win the ring in 2007 with 1999 Robinson, but it wouldn't be a given. 2007 Duncan was comfortably better than past prime Robinson.

No rings in any other year. That gives us 2 rings at most and I don't think it would change his all-time ranking at all. The timing is horrible, especially with 1997 in 2005.

[Owly]

So he'd play with his older version in 1999? If yes, then 1991 Admiral could win the title with the Spurs. If not, there is no case for that.

1993-95 Robinson gets no ring in 2001-03 period. I can't imagine him doing a better job than Duncan on offensive end during that period and Spurs needed Timmy's inside pressence desperatly.

1996 with 2004 is no ring, because Parker/Manu weren't ready yet.

No ring in 2005 as he missed whole season in 1997. Has a case for ring in 2006 with higher seed (1998 Robinson was better in RS than Duncan), but again - 1998 Robinson wasn't capable of doing what Duncan did against the Mavs.

I think they could win the ring in 2007 with 1999 Robinson, but it wouldn't be a given. 2007 Duncan was comfortably better than past prime Robinson.

No rings in any other year. That gives us 2 rings at most and I don't think it would change his all-time ranking at all. The timing is horrible, especially with 1997 in 2005.

I would guess that by absence of mention of 1992 and dismissal of '97 that you are assuming injuries are as was in terms of "missed playoffs"? If so ...

A potential counter: '92 Robinson was scheduled to be back mid second round (early -upon injury- estimated circa before 4th game of when actual 2nd round series happened) if this Robinson has old Robinson to keep his team afloat, maybe they have an easier seed, better first round play and young Robinson has a chance to come back ... though IRL sans Duncan the Spurs lost in 2000 so it would hinge on a more absent (but more productive and very highly impactful) '92 Robinson getting them a higher seed. Or an interpretation where you just see it as probabilities rather than what happened to happen just happens again (I don't love the latter in general but get why it's used in terms of this type of proxy player comparison). I don't know about '97 but I don't know that it's a given that he couldn't have played in the playoffs ... just looking this up and one source gives the timeline (written 24th Dec. published 25th):

"Now he has a broken left foot, and the San Antonio Spurs' star center will be out six weeks."

https://www.nytimes.com/1996/12/25/sports/spurs-robinson-breaks-his-foot.html

Maybe there were genuine complications as to why he couldn't get back around circa 4th February, that's entirely possible ... maybe it's in a grey area, e.g. where multiple factors ... if there's any risk of re-aggravating or putting pressure on something else ... it's not worth it for wins in this season so we'll keep going with this:

Watch on YouTube

I don't know. I'm just unsure that it's a given that Robinson (maybe with better healthcare the further along we go?) doesn't get back in time to contribute if there's actually something on the line.

[70sFan]

So he'd play with his older version in 1999? If yes, then 1991 Admiral could win the title with the Spurs. If not, there is no case for that.

1993-95 Robinson gets no ring in 2001-03 period. I can't imagine him doing a better job than Duncan on offensive end during that period and Spurs needed Timmy's inside pressence desperatly.

1996 with 2004 is no ring, because Parker/Manu weren't ready yet.

No ring in 2005 as he missed whole season in 1997. Has a case for ring in 2006 with higher seed (1998 Robinson was better in RS than Duncan), but again - 1998 Robinson wasn't capable of doing what Duncan did against the Mavs.

I think they could win the ring in 2007 with 1999 Robinson, but it wouldn't be a given. 2007 Duncan was comfortably better than past prime Robinson.

No rings in any other year. That gives us 2 rings at most and I don't think it would change his all-time ranking at all. The timing is horrible, especially with 1997 in 2005.

I would guess that by absence of mention of 1992 and dismissal of '97 that you are assuming injuries are as was in terms of "missed playoffs"? If so ...

A potential counter: '92 Robinson was scheduled to be back mid second round (early -upon injury- estimated circa before 4th game of when actual 2nd round series happened) if this Robinson has old Robinson to keep his team afloat, maybe they have an easier seed, better first round play and young Robinson has a chance to come back ... though IRL sans Duncan the Spurs lost in 2000 so it would hinge on a more absent (but more productive and very highly impactful) '92 Robinson getting them a higher seed. Or an interpretation where you just see it as probabilities rather than what happened to happen just happens again (I don't love the latter in general but get why it's used in terms of this type of proxy player comparison). I don't know about '97 but I don't know that it's a given that he couldn't have played in the playoffs ... just looking this up and one source gives the timeline (written 24th Dec. published 25th):

"Now he has a broken left foot, and the San Antonio Spurs' star center will be out six weeks."

https://www.nytimes.com/1996/12/25/sports/spurs-robinson-breaks-his-foot.html

Maybe there were genuine complications as to why he couldn't get back around circa 4th February, that's entirely possible ... maybe it's in a grey area, e.g. where multiple factors ... if there's any risk of re-aggravating or putting pressure on something else ... it's not worth it for wins in this season so we'll keep going with this:
[youtube]https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=video&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiIufmcoeH3AhW9_bsIHXbED2cQtwJ6BAgMEAI&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D3z3HzjtjHoE&usg=AOvVaw2AKyVDr1MZHLPmxUKexZI0[/youtube]
I don't know. I'm just unsure that it's a given that Robinson (maybe with better healthcare the further along we go?) doesn't get back in time to contribute if there's actually something on the line.

Good point, I just didn't want to complicate the topic too much. The truth is that if we simulate Robinson's career in different era he'd likely didn't suffer the same injuries at the same time.

[migya]

So he'd play with his older version in 1999? If yes, then 1991 Admiral could win the title with the Spurs. If not, there is no case for that.

1993-95 Robinson gets no ring in 2001-03 period. I can't imagine him doing a better job than Duncan on offensive end during that period and Spurs needed Timmy's inside pressence desperatly.

1996 with 2004 is no ring, because Parker/Manu weren't ready yet.

No ring in 2005 as he missed whole season in 1997. Has a case for ring in 2006 with higher seed (1998 Robinson was better in RS than Duncan), but again - 1998 Robinson wasn't capable of doing what Duncan did against the Mavs.

I think they could win the ring in 2007 with 1999 Robinson, but it wouldn't be a given. 2007 Duncan was comfortably better than past prime Robinson.

No rings in any other year. That gives us 2 rings at most and I don't think it would change his all-time ranking at all. The timing is horrible, especially with 1997 in 2005.

No old Robinson, Charles Smith, the PF for them in 1996 and 97, not sure if it was injury that caused his retirement, suppose he is still there for 98 and they have an average level PF every every season.

[70sFan]

So he'd play with his older version in 1999? If yes, then 1991 Admiral could win the title with the Spurs. If not, there is no case for that.

1993-95 Robinson gets no ring in 2001-03 period. I can't imagine him doing a better job than Duncan on offensive end during that period and Spurs needed Timmy's inside pressence desperatly.

1996 with 2004 is no ring, because Parker/Manu weren't ready yet.

No ring in 2005 as he missed whole season in 1997. Has a case for ring in 2006 with higher seed (1998 Robinson was better in RS than Duncan), but again - 1998 Robinson wasn't capable of doing what Duncan did against the Mavs.

I think they could win the ring in 2007 with 1999 Robinson, but it wouldn't be a given. 2007 Duncan was comfortably better than past prime Robinson.

No rings in any other year. That gives us 2 rings at most and I don't think it would change his all-time ranking at all. The timing is horrible, especially with 1997 in 2005.

No old Robinson, Charles Smith, the PF for them in 1996 and 97, not sure if it was injury that caused his retirement, suppose he is still there for 98 and they have an average level PF every every season.

Then probably only one ring in 2007.

[migya]

So he'd play with his older version in 1999? If yes, then 1991 Admiral could win the title with the Spurs. If not, there is no case for that.

1993-95 Robinson gets no ring in 2001-03 period. I can't imagine him doing a better job than Duncan on offensive end during that period and Spurs needed Timmy's inside pressence desperatly.

1996 with 2004 is no ring, because Parker/Manu weren't ready yet.

No ring in 2005 as he missed whole season in 1997. Has a case for ring in 2006 with higher seed (1998 Robinson was better in RS than Duncan), but again - 1998 Robinson wasn't capable of doing what Duncan did against the Mavs.

I think they could win the ring in 2007 with 1999 Robinson, but it wouldn't be a given. 2007 Duncan was comfortably better than past prime Robinson.

No rings in any other year. That gives us 2 rings at most and I don't think it would change his all-time ranking at all. The timing is horrible, especially with 1997 in 2005.

No old Robinson, Charles Smith, the PF for them in 1996 and 97, not sure if it was injury that caused his retirement, suppose he is still there for 98 and they have an average level PF every every season.

Then probably only one ring in 2007.

In real life if the Spurs hasn't have gotten Duncan, Robinson would continue on his star level until 2000 at least. Think in this scenario the Spurs compete until 2008.

[70sFan]

No old Robinson, Charles Smith, the PF for them in 1996 and 97, not sure if it was injury that caused his retirement, suppose he is still there for 98 and they have an average level PF every every season.

Then probably only one ring in 2007.

In real life if the Spurs hasn't have gotten Duncan, Robinson would continue on his star level until 2000 at least. Think in this scenario the Spurs compete until 2008.

Yeah, but 2000 Robinson wasn't better than 2008 Duncan.

[migya]

Then probably only one ring in 2007.

In real life if the Spurs hasn't have gotten Duncan, Robinson would continue on his star level until 2000 at least. Think in this scenario the Spurs compete until 2008.

Yeah, but 2000 Robinson wasn't better than 2008 Duncan.

At similar level to 96 he would be. Robinson actually aged well. Yea he was with Duncan but he still performed much better than most in their mid 30s.

[70sFan]

In real life if the Spurs hasn't have gotten Duncan, Robinson would continue on his star level until 2000 at least. Think in this scenario the Spurs compete until 2008.

Yeah, but 2000 Robinson wasn't better than 2008 Duncan.

At similar level to 96 he would be. Robinson actually aged well. Yea he was with Duncan but he still performed much better than most in their mid 30s.

Robinson wasn't at his 1996 level even in 1998, let alone in 2000.

Either way, even peak Robinson wouldn't lead 2008 Spurs with injured Manu to the title, no way

[OdomFan]

I don't see him winning any titles without Duncan. Also what happens to Duncan in this world where a young David Robinson is there, and is Robinson still in the army in 1997 like he was in the 80s? I can't imagine the Spurs wanting to roll the dice on Robinson because of his army commitment over Duncan who was a once in a life time steal. A superstar level player before even coming into the league.

If Duncan is in that same draft and is taken by Philly or Boston, then Robinsons chances of leading the Spurs to a title becomes even less likely. Especially if he doesn't play until 2000 like h didn't play until 1990 in the actual real events. I'm just going to go with Duncan playing with Boston because I dislike the idea of Duncan sharing a squad with Iverson. That would waste years of Duncans career unless Philly trades Iverson soon after for someone like Jason Kidd or another quality point guard.