Luka compared to late Lebron (~17-20) offensively

[dygaction]

How is Luka a better shooter? None of the data supports that notion.

Unless you do not trust playoff number is a thing. In the three year span, Luka was better 3ft-10, 10-16, 16-3p, and they tied at 3p.

Sample size matters though.

In 7 games against the #1defense [103.7 2018 Celtics] LeBron posted 33.6/9.0/8.4 on 52.4 FG%, 40.9 3P% and 61.0 TS%.

Luka posted a worse series in 2020 against the 5th best defense [107.6 Drtg] and 2020 [8th best defense, 111.2 Drtg].

Luka's Phoenix series is 32.6/9.9/7.0 on 47.6 FG%, 33.8 3P% and 58.3 TS% [3rd ranked defense at 107.3 Drtg].

Next.

Talking about shooter, not finisher or TS%...

[Cavsfansince84]

The one thing I like about Luka is his general shiftiness near the paint. The way he so easily mixes in different speeds and can get off quality shots in that area. It took LeBron a lot longer to develop that sort of stuff and Luka has more bully in him when he gets smaller defenders on him. If Luka can keep adding polish he is gonna be really hard to beat in a 7 game series in a few years.

[dygaction]

The one thing I like about Luka is his general shiftiness near the paint. The way he so easily mixes in different speeds and can get off quality shots in that area. It took LeBron a lot longer to develop that sort of stuff and Luka has more bully in him when he gets smaller defenders on him. If Luka can keep adding polish he is gonna be really hard to beat in a 7 game series in a few years.

That's so true.

I have a hard time in finding a Luka like player finishing close to the basket. If you look at his shot distribution, besides 3pters (42% fga regular season and 39% playoffs), his attempts from 3-10ft range are the next highest (22% regular season and 25% playoffs), and he is hitting them with high efficiency (.474% and .482% playoffs). This actually tends to be a dead zone for most good shooters as it is heavily guarded. For example, over career:

Luka attempted 22% from there @.474

Dirk attempted 8% from there @ .404
LeBron attempted 12% @.421
Richard Hamilton 13% @.414
Michael Jordan 8% @.363 (only last 4 years)
Steve Nash 11% @.444
Steph Curry 10% @.444
Harden 14% @.375

Players that use this area the most are either guards with excellent jump shots/floaters or PFs with size advantage and excellent shooting touch.

Parker 19% @.455
CP3 15% @.491
KG 20% @.442%
Duncan 34% @.447
Elton Brand 27% @.460
Kawhi 16%@.473
DeRozan 19% @.459

He can get to that area with ease due to his tight handle, and usually with his main defender on his back or behind his butt. Now he can opt to floater, jump shot, or bank shot. If he is backing down a smaller guard, it will be usually followed by either a one leg or step back jump shot, or use his footwork to get in front of his defender for a easy layup. That's high volume and high efficiency, coupled with his elite finish under the basket (0-3ft, 19% @ .717), making his game much less affected by playoff defense.

Not sure whether his playoff shooting stats are aberration or he just has another gear (I hope), they are just better from everywhere on the floor except free throw line.

[oaktownwarriors87]

Luka has a higher usage and gets less in transition. You can see that as good or bad. He's producing slightly more and slightly less efficiently, but he's taking on a slightly tougher role.


Luka is almost 20% more efficient than LeBron (17-20) in isolation with similar volume.

It's an interesting comparison. I'd almost always give the nod to the vet, but Luka is different.

[MyUniBroDavis]

Luka has a higher usage and gets less in transition. You can see that as good or bad. He's producing slightly more and slightly less efficiently, but he's taking on a slightly tougher role.


Luka is almost 20% more efficient than LeBron (17-20) in isolation with similar volume.

It's an interesting comparison. I'd almost always give the nod to the vet, but Luka is different.

Lebrons effeciency went up in the playoffs, and we know playoff lebron is a thing

Keep in mind, the 2018 team in the playoffs had pretty bad spacing and they could pack the paint without consequence, ditto with the 2020 team in terms of how many shooters would be on the floor

2017
6.8 per game
1.17ppp

2018
9.7 per game
0.99ppp

2020
5.3 per game
1.05ppp

Luka

2020
4.3 per game
1.02ppp

2021
4.6 per game
1.05ppp

2022
6.3 per game
1.11ppp

Adding lukas playoffs I feel doesn’t make sense because the sample size would be small, but they’re a bit worse than his rs

Lebron does score in transition more, but the gap comes more so from Luka not doing it so much than lebron doing it a crazy amount or anything.

Beyond that it isn’t fully sufficient to explain the glaring difference in their effeciency, Lukas great and theres context to it, but his effeciency really isn’t comparable to brons over that time span

Higher volume >/= tougher role, lebrons carry job in 2018 was harder than Lukas have been offensively

[oaktownwarriors87]

Luka has a higher usage and gets less in transition. You can see that as good or bad. He's producing slightly more and slightly less efficiently, but he's taking on a slightly tougher role.


Luka is almost 20% more efficient than LeBron (17-20) in isolation with similar volume.

It's an interesting comparison. I'd almost always give the nod to the vet, but Luka is different.

Lebrons effeciency went up in the playoffs, and we know playoff lebron is a thing

Keep in mind, the 2018 team in the playoffs had pretty bad spacing and they could pack the paint without consequence, ditto with the 2020 team in terms of how many shooters would be on the floor

2017
6.8 per game
1.17ppp

2018
9.7 per game
0.99ppp

2020
5.3 per game
1.05ppp

Luka

2020
4.3 per game
1.02ppp

2021
4.6 per game
1.05ppp

2022
6.3 per game
1.11ppp

Adding lukas playoffs I feel doesn’t make sense because the sample size would be small, but they’re a bit worse than his rs

Lebron does score in transition more, but the gap comes more so from Luka not doing it so much than lebron doing it a crazy amount or anything.

Beyond that it isn’t fully sufficient to explain the glaring difference in their effeciency, Lukas great and theres context to it, but his effeciency really isn’t comparable to brons over that time span

Higher volume >/= tougher role, lebrons carry job in 2018 was harder than Lukas have been offensively

Playoffs are so matchup specific that its hard to compare numbers is such a small same size. A team can pile it on a single player and his numbers will suffer, but the impact that player had may be greater.

There's also the quality of the opponent and how well they match-up.

2018 LeBron was impressive in the playoffs, but is it more impresive than beating the Jazz and Phoenix? Luka came back from an injury and then took down the #1 team. Win or lose in the next two rounds, that's huge.

From 17-20 only Giannis scored more than LeBron in transition, and they did it with nearly identical efficiency. Personally, I think LeBron is the greatest transition threat of all time. I'm not trying to knock him.


This is a coin toss to me. I think they're both equally amazing.

[tsherkin]

I am not sure he had "significantly" better scoring or that he was a better passer, and I am pretty sure Luka is better shooter at this stage.

Well, let's look at their scoring, then.

17-20 Lebron:

26.6 ppg, 52.5% FG (19.1 FGA/g), 35.5% 3P (5.4 3PA/g), 69.2% FT (6.7 FTA/g). Lebron being Wing Shaq has been brutal on his scoring volume and efficiency, heh. He also shot over 59% below the arc during this stretch (59.2%) and the best Doncic has managed to date is 57.4% 3 seasons ago. He's a little better in the playoffs, but then, so is Lebron (61.9% 2FG in the postseason during these years).

Lebron was a better scorer. He wasn't a better shooter, but he was able to leverage physical tools that Doncic simply doesn't have, so it didn't really matter.

[No-more-rings]

I don't know how I'd compare them I just know those versions of Lebron when healthy were comfortably better offensively.

[MyUniBroDavis]

Luka has a higher usage and gets less in transition. You can see that as good or bad. He's producing slightly more and slightly less efficiently, but he's taking on a slightly tougher role.


Luka is almost 20% more efficient than LeBron (17-20) in isolation with similar volume.

It's an interesting comparison. I'd almost always give the nod to the vet, but Luka is different.

Lebrons effeciency went up in the playoffs, and we know playoff lebron is a thing

Keep in mind, the 2018 team in the playoffs had pretty bad spacing and they could pack the paint without consequence, ditto with the 2020 team in terms of how many shooters would be on the floor

2017
6.8 per game
1.17ppp

2018
9.7 per game
0.99ppp

2020
5.3 per game
1.05ppp

Luka

2020
4.3 per game
1.02ppp

2021
4.6 per game
1.05ppp

2022
6.3 per game
1.11ppp

Adding lukas playoffs I feel doesn’t make sense because the sample size would be small, but they’re a bit worse than his rs

Lebron does score in transition more, but the gap comes more so from Luka not doing it so much than lebron doing it a crazy amount or anything.

Beyond that it isn’t fully sufficient to explain the glaring difference in their effeciency, Lukas great and theres context to it, but his effeciency really isn’t comparable to brons over that time span

Higher volume >/= tougher role, lebrons carry job in 2018 was harder than Lukas have been offensively

Playoffs are so matchup specific that its hard to compare numbers is such a small same size. A team can pile it on a single player and his numbers will suffer, but the impact that player had may be greater.

There's also the quality of the opponent and how well they match-up.

2018 LeBron was impressive in the playoffs, but is it more impresive than beating the Jazz and Phoenix? Luka came back from an injury and then took down the #1 team. Win or lose in the next two rounds, that's huge.

From 17-20 only Giannis scored more than LeBron in transition, and they did it with nearly identical efficiency. Personally, I think LeBron is the greatest transition threat of all time. I'm not trying to knock him.


This is a coin toss to me. I think they're both equally amazing.

I’m not disagreeing on him getting more in transition, I’m just saying the level of effeciency can’t be fully explained by that

The mavs offense was great and I’m not knocking Luka at all, but their defense was what changed things from 3-7, with them changing their p and r coverage to be more predictable which basically completely changes how the suns offense approached, since a lot of their offense is based upon doing this pick and roll for this coverage that they expect

Another way to say it is, I do think peak lebron could do what Luka did this year, while I don’t think the reverse is true