How many Russ and Harden seasons would you take over 2018 CP3?

[1993Playoffs]

How many Russ and Harden seasons would you say are better?

[No-more-rings]

It’s hard for me to tell if Cp3 declined from 2017 or if it’s just a lower load.

Probably 2016 and 2017 for Westbrook, 2018-2020 for Harden.

[ceoofkobefans]

For russ

2015
2016
2017
2018?

For harden
2017?
2018
2019
2020
2021
2022??

[scrabbarista]

I'm not counting, but I think it's kind of a lot. As an ex-Rockets fan, I'd take 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, and 2020 Harden over 2018 CP3. Not really seeing BKN or PHI Harden, but I guess others might see things differently.

Thing is, 2018 Chris Paul only played 58 games, and then he got injured in the playoffs. Great as Paul was when he played, Harden was an absolute iron man in Houston. Like, he was probably/maybe better per-minute than 2018 Paul in all of those seasons, but if you factor in availability, it becomes an easy choice.

[ardee]

I'm not counting, but I think it's kind of a lot. As an ex-Rockets fan, I'd take 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, and 2020 Harden over 2018 CP3. Not really seeing BKN or PHI Harden, but I guess others might see things differently.

Thing is, 2018 Chris Paul only played 58 games, and then he got injured in the playoffs. Great as Paul was when he played, Harden was an absolute iron man in Houston. Like, he was probably/maybe better per-minute than 2018 Paul in all of those seasons, but if you factor in availability, it becomes an easy choice.

Yeah the Playoff injury makes it hard.

On a per minute basis 2018 Paul was not really much worse than his Clipper years, but based on the total value provided, I would take 2015, 2017-2020 Harden over him and 2014-2017 Russ (Russ was a monster in the 2014 Playoffs).

[scrabbarista]

I'm not counting, but I think it's kind of a lot. As an ex-Rockets fan, I'd take 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, and 2020 Harden over 2018 CP3. Not really seeing BKN or PHI Harden, but I guess others might see things differently.

Thing is, 2018 Chris Paul only played 58 games, and then he got injured in the playoffs. Great as Paul was when he played, Harden was an absolute iron man in Houston. Like, he was probably/maybe better per-minute than 2018 Paul in all of those seasons, but if you factor in availability, it becomes an easy choice.

Yeah the Playoff injury makes it hard.

On a per minute basis 2018 Paul was not really much worse than his Clipper years, but based on the total value provided, I would take 2015, 2017-2020 Harden over him and 2014-2017 Russ (Russ was a monster in the 2014 Playoffs).

In 2016, Harden was one of three or four guys in history up to that point put to up a 29/6/7 stat-line, and he lead the league in minutes per game (38.1) while playing all 82 games. People talk about him being paired with a "superstar" in Dwight Howard, but Howard didn't even average 14 points per game that season. Harden not making All-NBA that season is probably the greatest travesty in the history of the All-League teams, and I don't mean to exaggerate.

I checked on that stat-line. It was only Oscar and MJ up to that point, I think. Russ did it the following season and won MVP.

[ardee]

I'm not counting, but I think it's kind of a lot. As an ex-Rockets fan, I'd take 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, and 2020 Harden over 2018 CP3. Not really seeing BKN or PHI Harden, but I guess others might see things differently.

Thing is, 2018 Chris Paul only played 58 games, and then he got injured in the playoffs. Great as Paul was when he played, Harden was an absolute iron man in Houston. Like, he was probably/maybe better per-minute than 2018 Paul in all of those seasons, but if you factor in availability, it becomes an easy choice.

Yeah the Playoff injury makes it hard.

On a per minute basis 2018 Paul was not really much worse than his Clipper years, but based on the total value provided, I would take 2015, 2017-2020 Harden over him and 2014-2017 Russ (Russ was a monster in the 2014 Playoffs).

In 2016, Harden was one of three or four guys in history up to that point put to up a 29/6/7 stat-line, and he lead the league in minutes per game (38.1) while playing all 82 games. People talk about him being paired with a "superstar" in Dwight Howard, but Howard didn't even average 14 points per game that season. Harden not making All-NBA that season is probably the greatest travesty in the history of the All-League teams, and I don't mean to exaggerate.

I checked on that stat-line. It was only Oscar and MJ up to that point, I think. Russ did it the following season and won MVP.

Stat-line aside, 2016 was the year he was MASSIVELY out of shape to start the season and the Rockets went from contenders in 2015 to barely above .500 at the ASB in 2016? That sort of thing matters.

[scrabbarista]

Yeah the Playoff injury makes it hard.

On a per minute basis 2018 Paul was not really much worse than his Clipper years, but based on the total value provided, I would take 2015, 2017-2020 Harden over him and 2014-2017 Russ (Russ was a monster in the 2014 Playoffs).

In 2016, Harden was one of three or four guys in history up to that point put to up a 29/6/7 stat-line, and he lead the league in minutes per game (38.1) while playing all 82 games. People talk about him being paired with a "superstar" in Dwight Howard, but Howard didn't even average 14 points per game that season. Harden not making All-NBA that season is probably the greatest travesty in the history of the All-League teams, and I don't mean to exaggerate.

I checked on that stat-line. It was only Oscar and MJ up to that point, I think. Russ did it the following season and won MVP.

Stat-line aside, 2016 was the year he was MASSIVELY out of shape to start the season and the Rockets went from contenders in 2015 to barely above .500 at the ASB in 2016? That sort of thing matters.

A "massively out of shape" guy lead the league in minutes per game while playing all 82 games and putting up numbers that only Oscar and MJ had ever matched in the history of the league...? Does that sound right to you? During the first 31 days of the season (17 games), he averaged 40 minutes per game. He was playing that much because the team was going through injuries to Pat Bev and Dwight Howard, and Capela was so raw that he could rarely give more than 25 minutes, even when Howard didn't play.

Look, I'm not saying he should've won the MVP. Not remotely. All I'm saying is that:

A) He should've been All-NBA.
B) He was more productive overall than 2018 Chris Paul.
C) It's not right to penalize him for the fact that he carried a trash roster to the WCF the previous year, and then his trash teammates played more to their normal level the following season.
D) "Out of shape" is kind of a narrative thing. Like, maybe he was, maybe he wasn't. But I don't see how you can shrug off a stat-line that only Oscar and MJ had ever achieved in the nearly 70-year history of the league. And how out of shape could he really have been if he was playing 40 minutes per game?

But eh. Maybe agree to disagree. I was watching all of those games, so I got a first-hand glimpse of how narrative and fact don't always add up. I think this has often been particularly true in Harden's case.

[70sFan]

2018-20 Harden
2016-17 Westbrook

That's all.

[PhiEaglesfan712]

I'd take just about every season, with the obvious exception of 2021-22 from both of those players over 2018 CP3. That was the year when I first noticed Chris Paul was decline and his inability to stay healthy cost Houston winning the Western Conference Finals. (He probably should have tried to gut it out in Game 7, but even if they had won, Harden would have probably found a way to choke to a bad Cavs team in the Finals.)

CP3 was downright awful in 2018-19.

[Jaivl]

Basically every healthy prime season for both. Injuries suck for Paul's career value.