Coaches who never had an ATG (top 20)'s prime

sp6r=underrated · Post #1 » by **sp6r=underrated** » Wed Jun 8, 2022 6:35 pm

We all know superstars matter a lot in basketball. The coaches below racked up a ton of wins despite never having a top 20 ATG in their prime. Give them a player you regard in the 10-20 range level for primes. Whose resume improves the most?

prolific passer · Post #2 » by **prolific passer** » Wed Jun 8, 2022 8:35 pm

Wonder what would have happened if the hawks didnt trade Nique at the deadline for Danny Manning in the 93-94 season.

Homer38 · Post #3 » by **Homer38** » Wed Jun 8, 2022 8:37 pm

Rick Adelman would have maybe 2-3 rings if he would one of the top 20 players ever in the Blazers and the Kings roster

prolific passer · Post #4 » by **prolific passer** » Wed Jun 8, 2022 8:39 pm

Homer38 wrote:Rick Adelman would have maybe 2-3 rings if he would one of the top 20 players ever in the Blazers and the Kings roster

Magic with Adelman?

Colbinii · Post #5 » by **Colbinii** » Thu Jun 9, 2022 1:45 am

Adelman pretty easily for me. Had Webber been someone like KG or Dirk those teams win multiple championships.

sp6r=underrated · Post #6 » by **sp6r=underrated** » Thu Jun 9, 2022 2:10 am

Colbinii wrote:Adelman pretty easily for me. Had Webber been someone like KG or Dirk those teams win multiple championships.

This is Adelman or Wilkens for me. I find both men's body of work extremely impressive. They consistently built elite teams in multiple stops.

And I don't doubt about either ability to coach ATGs the way I do with Karl.

I

Owly · Post #7 » by **Owly** » Thu Jun 9, 2022 6:23 pm

sp6r=underrated wrote:
Colbinii wrote:Adelman pretty easily for me. Had Webber been someone like KG or Dirk those teams win multiple championships.

This is Adelman or Wilkens for me. I find both men's body of work extremely impressive. They consistently built elite teams in multiple stops.

And I don't doubt about either ability to coach ATGs the way I do with Karl.

I

Don't know where I'd end up on this, so this isn't to say I necessarily disagree.
One thing Karl has (Wilkens has one of these) is in season turnarounds. I should probably dig deeper with points dif and schedule (and injuries) but ...
'92 Sonics: 18-18 with K.C. Jones, 2-2 Bob Kloppenburg, 27-15 Karl.
'05 Nuggets: 13-15 Bzdelik, 4-10 Michael Cooper, 32-8 Karl.
Those were some significant gear changes.

Karl's best team also sustained it's greatness for longer than any of the other teams (93-97 SRS: 7.512 or replacing in '98's 6.33, 94-98: 7.446). One could pick holes of course, though perhaps with the others too?

sp6r=underrated · Post #8 » by **sp6r=underrated** » Thu Jun 9, 2022 6:25 pm

Owly wrote:
sp6r=underrated wrote:
Colbinii wrote:Adelman pretty easily for me. Had Webber been someone like KG or Dirk those teams win multiple championships.

This is Adelman or Wilkens for me. I find both men's body of work extremely impressive. They consistently built elite teams in multiple stops.

And I don't doubt about either ability to coach ATGs the way I do with Karl.

I

Don't know where I'd end up on this, so this isn't to say I necessarily disagree.
One thing Karl has (Wilkens has one of these) is in season turnarounds. I should probably dig deeper with points dif and schedule (and injuries) but ...
'92 Sonics: 18-18 with K.C. Jones, 2-2 Bob Kloppenburg, 27-15 Karl.
'05 Nuggets: 13-15 Bzdelik, 4-10 Michael Cooper, 32-8 Karl.
Those were some significant gear changes.

Karl's best team also sustained it's greatness for longer than any of the other teams (93-97 SRS: 7.512 or replacing in '98's 6.33, 94-98: 7.446). One could pick holes of course, though perhaps with the others too?

Karl can flat out coach. I believe in him on that front. I can be persuaded but what I've read about him makes me skeptical about his ability to manage super high end talent long term

Owly · Post #9 » by **Owly** » Thu Jun 9, 2022 6:44 pm

sp6r=underrated wrote:
Owly wrote:
sp6r=underrated wrote:
This is Adelman or Wilkens for me. I find both men's body of work extremely impressive. They consistently built elite teams in multiple stops.

And I don't doubt about either ability to coach ATGs the way I do with Karl.

I

Don't know where I'd end up on this, so this isn't to say I necessarily disagree.
One thing Karl has (Wilkens has one of these) is in season turnarounds. I should probably dig deeper with points dif and schedule (and injuries) but ...
'92 Sonics: 18-18 with K.C. Jones, 2-2 Bob Kloppenburg, 27-15 Karl.
'05 Nuggets: 13-15 Bzdelik, 4-10 Michael Cooper, 32-8 Karl.
Those were some significant gear changes.

Karl's best team also sustained it's greatness for longer than any of the other teams (93-97 SRS: 7.512 or replacing in '98's 6.33, 94-98: 7.446). One could pick holes of course, though perhaps with the others too?

Karl can flat out coach. I believe in him on that front. I can be persuaded but what I've read about him makes me skeptical about his ability to manage super high end talent long term

I get it and there's been some weird stuff from him (from what I've seen haven't followed it closely) latterly (and conflict more consistently I think).

Not thought it through but it might be arguable that he'd be better with some hyper-competitor elite tier talent (otoh Jordan, Garnett, Bird, Robertson, Paul) than with one way (offense) ... not quite enough ... Carmelo types is where this is ultimately going. But maybe it just blows up sooner.