How many Kobe years would you take over 2011 LeBron James

[Masigond]

Nada. Nothing. Zero. Zip.

[LAL1947]

I'd be comfortable taking 2008 and 2009 over 2011 LeBron. While I do think LeBron still had a stronger regular season in 2011 than Kobe ever produced and most of the play-offs were solid enough even if not spectacular by his own standards. It's really only the finals that significantly marks the season down. Kobe's 2008 season is similar in a way but despite a worse regular season he didn't crumble as bad in the finals against a stronger defensive team. I see 2009 as comparable to 2008 but with a slightly worse regular season and a more well rounded post-season.

2003 and 2006 have a regular season good enough to compete with Lebron's 2011 but Kobe didn't play well enough/did enough in those play-offs to close the difference imo. He had a beter post-season in 2001 but I'm not as high on him in the regular season as I think he became a star as the season went on so it isn't as good from start to finish. 2002, 2004 and 2007 are arguable I guess but I don't see a great case for those seasons. 2010 is probably the closest season I could also consider over 2011 LeBron but it is a worse version of 2009 in almost every way and I barely have 2009 ahead of LeBron's 2011.

I appreciate your effort to be fair. Personally, I think there were more than 2 seasons but I won't debate your opinion since you have obviously put thought into it and decided this is yours.

Just one minor thing that I want to point out... we didn't lose in 2002-03 because Kobe didn't do enough or play well enough. Kobe averaged 34.8 points in the first 5 games against the Spurs. That's almost Jordanesque, albeit on lower efficiency. Shaq was lesser than in previous years... but our other starters were especially bad after Fox got injured because they did not have any gravity. Horry, Fisher, George and Shaw were always passing up easy looks and bricking shots, so Kobe stepped up and shot more. Well, our other starters stepped up in the 2 home games, but they were always missing in the away games for atleast the 1st 3 quarters. I can't remember the exact boxscores now... but if you look, I think you'll see that even if they stepped up in a 4th Q, their lack of contributions at half-time or end of 3rd Q were the main reason for why we were almost always down in the 1st place. With Shaq not firing on all cylinders, it was an impossible situation to win from, i.e., always being in the hole against a team that had Tim Duncan playing at MVP level (like Kobe did too) and with quality + athletic depth who were making consistent contributions through 4 quarters on both sides of the ball.

[70sFan]

I would take 2006, 2008, 2009 Kobe over 2011 James. Possibly 2001 as well.

[Texas Chuck]

I'm honestly curious what it is about 2011 Lebron that people seem relatively down on? He was clearly the best player in the RS with apologies to Dwight and Dirk. And he was really good in the Eastern playoffs. So if Miami loses in the ECF and he doesn't have that really poor Finals, are we then acknowledging he had another typical Lebron MVP year?

And is it really wrong to suggest that the typical Lebron MVP season is better than anything we ever saw from Kobe? Of course not. I'm tired of people so sensitive about Kobe that they take me saying he's not as good as the best player the world has ever seen as some sort of insult.

Here are some other peers of Lebron that I don't think were ever as good as 11 Lebron: Dirk, KG, Wade, Nash. This isn't anti-Kobe for crying out loud--a guy I repeatedly call one of the top dozen players of all-time. It's simply the reality that Lebron James was a better basketball player and my belief that one series shouldn't cause us to overreact and say a clearly inferior player was better.

Now back to accusations of bias and all the usual nonsense instead of listening to my rationale. Obviously you can disagree with me, and that's great. But to dismiss me as a hater is stupid.

[Dutchball97]

I'd be comfortable taking 2008 and 2009 over 2011 LeBron. While I do think LeBron still had a stronger regular season in 2011 than Kobe ever produced and most of the play-offs were solid enough even if not spectacular by his own standards. It's really only the finals that significantly marks the season down. Kobe's 2008 season is similar in a way but despite a worse regular season he didn't crumble as bad in the finals against a stronger defensive team. I see 2009 as comparable to 2008 but with a slightly worse regular season and a more well rounded post-season.

2003 and 2006 have a regular season good enough to compete with Lebron's 2011 but Kobe didn't play well enough/did enough in those play-offs to close the difference imo. He had a beter post-season in 2001 but I'm not as high on him in the regular season as I think he became a star as the season went on so it isn't as good from start to finish. 2002, 2004 and 2007 are arguable I guess but I don't see a great case for those seasons. 2010 is probably the closest season I could also consider over 2011 LeBron but it is a worse version of 2009 in almost every way and I barely have 2009 ahead of LeBron's 2011.

I appreciate your effort to be fair. Personally, I think there were more than 2 seasons but I won't debate your opinion since you have obviously put thought into it and decided this is yours.

Just one minor thing that I want to point out... we didn't lose in 2002-03 because Kobe didn't do enough or play well enough. Kobe averaged 34.8 points in the first 5 games against the Spurs. That's almost Jordanesque, albeit on lower efficiency. Shaq was lesser than in previous years... but our other starters were especially bad after Fox got injured because they did not have any gravity. Horry, Fisher, George and Shaw were always passing up easy looks and bricking shots, so Kobe stepped up and shot more. Well, our other starters stepped up in the 2 home games, but they were always missing in the away games for atleast the 1st 3 quarters. I can't remember the exact boxscores now... but if you look, I think you'll see that even if they stepped up in a 4th Q, their lack of contributions at half-time or end of 3rd Q were the main reason for why we were almost always down in the 1st place. With Shaq not firing on all cylinders, it was an impossible situation to win from, i.e., always being in the hole against a team that had Tim Duncan playing at MVP level (like Kobe did too) and with the quality + athletic depth they had who were making consistent contributions through 4 quarters on both sides of the ball.

I wasn't trying to say the Lakers lost in 2003 because Kobe wasn't good enough, I just think his post-season as a whole wasn't good enough to bridge the regular season difference to 2011 LeBron.

As to our difference in amount of Kobe seasons we'd take over 2011 LeBron I feel like the main difference is in that I look at what Kobe did in a given season, while you seem to be looking at it more like would this version of Kobe do better in LeBron's position. To be fair with the latter approach I could see myself taking a couple more Kobe seasons but there is a bit too much speculation involved with that for my tastes.

[homecourtloss]

The series vs. Dallas post game 1 alters many perceptions though I suppose that’s fair given it’s the Finals though with unique circumstances.

But looking at overall seasons, not many (if any) of Kobe’s really compare favorably if we look at either box score metrics or Impact statistics.

[HeartBreakKid]

If you can't argue about how James is worse than Kobe WITHOUT mentioning the finals then he probably wasn't worse....think about that all your points are coming from one series.

What makes it even more strange is that Kobe Bryant didn't do well in the finals in his peak either.

Over-analyzing one series zzzzzz.

[Colbinii]

If you can't argue about how James is worse than Kobe WITHOUT mentioning the finals then he probably wasn't worse....think about that all your points are coming from one series.

What makes it even more strange is that Kobe Bryant didn't do well in the finals in his peak either.

Over-analyzing one series zzzzzz.

I've already laid out in good detail each series of LeBron. It would be nice if someone would take the time from the Kobe Bryant camp but as are many arguments on this forum, one side tends to put in significantly more effort when putting forth an argument while the other side reverts to name calling and claiming biases, even when the biased side is presenting an argument supported by facts.