Top 50 player seasons, PLEASE READ pg 4 if you want to vote

[fatal9]

Putting up best numbers is not always equivalent to best season, especially in KAJ's situation with the the NBA changing pretty dramatically in the late 70s when compared to say...'71.

Lot of players put up some of their best numbers in the first 5 years of their career. You might say Durant has regressed as a scorer since his 30 ppg, 60 TS% season couple of years ago when clearly now he is better than ever. MJ from '90-'93 was to me clearly a better player than he was from '87-'89 (lot of people think his peak was '89 when he put up his best RS numbers). Players as they mature learn to pick their spots, KAJ in '77 was better than getting you a basket than he was in '71 despite him scoring a lot less. Durant this year is better at getting you a basket than he was in '10, despite scoring less. MJ in '91 was a better offensive player than he was in '89 despite averaging less points and assists.

As their careers progress, players learn to let the game dictate how they play, they don't need to average a certain number every night to be effective. The difference in PER isn't because they've regressed, it's because they give their team a bigger share of the offense. So they kind of have more "empty" possessions on offense where they get dinged by a stat like PER because they statistically don't get credit for pts/asts as they take more of a backseat, realizing that often times averaging big numbers is unnecessary in the regular season (team development more important) and sets a lower ceiling for what your team can achieve. Basically you're exchanging slightly worse numbers (voluntarily) for a player being more team oriented, having less weaknesses and a more complete/mature game. They can easily match their productivity from previous years if they wanted, and they often do when the playoffs come and it becomes more of a superstar's game.

[ardee]

Putting up best numbers is not always equivalent to best season, especially in KAJ's situation with the the NBA changing pretty dramatically in the late 70s when compared to say...'71.

Lot of players put up some of their best numbers in the first 5 years of their career. You might say Durant has regressed as a scorer since his 30 ppg, 60 TS% season couple of years ago when clearly now he is better than ever. MJ from '90-'93 was to me clearly a better player than he was from '87-'89 (lot of people think his peak was '89 when he put up his best RS numbers). Players as they mature learn to pick their spots, KAJ in '77 was better than getting you a basket than he was in '71 despite him scoring a lot less. Durant this year is better at getting you a basket than he was in '10, despite scoring less. MJ in '91 was a better offensive player than he was in '89 despite averaging less points and assists.

As their careers progress, players learn to let the game dictate how they play, they don't need to average a certain number every night to be effective. The difference in PER isn't because they've regressed, it's because they give their team a bigger share of the offense. So they kind of have more "empty" possessions on offense where they get dinged by a stat like PER because they statistically don't get credit for pts/asts as they take more of a backseat, realizing that often times averaging big numbers is unnecessary in the regular season (team development more important) and sets a lower ceiling for what your team can achieve. Basically you're exchanging slightly worse numbers (voluntarily) for a player being more team oriented, having less weaknesses and a more complete/mature game. They can easily match their productivity from previous years if they wanted, and they often do when the playoffs come and it becomes more of a superstar's game.

This.

By the way, another debate I thought of: what is Wilt's second best year, after '67?

[ardee]

Here's a preliminary look at my top 25 without a cap on players.

67 Chamberlain
91 Jordan
00 Shaq
86 Bird
87 Magic
90 Jordan
64 Chamberlain
77 Kareem
65 Russell
64 Russell
68 Chamberlain
76 Doc
09 LeBron
94 Hakeem
74 Kareem
76 Kareem
88 Jordan
87 Bird
89 Jordan
03 Duncan
01 Shaq
95 Hakeeem
92 Jordan
77 Walton
74 Kareem

Probably some mistakes, won't have a set list until I hear other arguments.

[HeartBreakKid]

Hey, I notice the title says read page 4 if I want to vote. What critical information was on page 4 that I needed to read exactly? I don't see anything there, granted it is late here so maybe I missed it.

Btw, this project is still in its preliminary stages right?

[ardee]

Hey, I notice the title says read page 4 if I want to vote. What critical information was on page 4 that I needed to read exactly? I don't see anything there, granted it is late here so maybe I missed it.

Btw, this project is still in its preliminary stages right?

Nothing all that important, I was trying to get the project started but we figured it was better to wait until the postseason ended.

Yup, not even preliminary stages, we don't have voters yet. I think we should indeed wait until June, LeBron and Durant have been having crazy seasons and might get some consideration for maybe top 30 if either wins the title.

Do you have an idea about what your list would look like?

[HeartBreakKid]

Depends on the criteria. Is it just one season per person?

[ardee]

Depends on the criteria. Is it just one season per person?

I am personally leaning toward no cap on seasons per player. Extended brilliance should be rewarded, not ignored.

[therealbig3]

I don't think I'll participate, but I'm really interested in following this project and reading other people's opinions. This is a very good idea, and I'm interested in seeing where certain people rank.

[ThaRegul8r]

Depends on the criteria. Is it just one season per person?

I am personally leaning toward no cap on seasons per player. Extended brilliance should be rewarded, not ignored.

I'm inclined to agree with this.

[Silver Bullet]

What's going on with this project - btw a suggestion for the folks organizing this, one way to limit seasons if that's what you want could be to dissallow consecutive seasons i.e. If Jordan 91 has already been voted in, then Jordan 90' and Jordan 92 can't be voted on, but Jordan 89 can.

That way you can divide a players careers into a number of mini peaks and compare say first three peat Jordan with second three peat Jordan vs. comparing 91 Jordan with 90 Jordan, which to me is essentially the same player.

Also, here's a random question for you guys -
Which season would you rank higher 03-04 KG or - 07-08 KG

[ardee]

What's going on with this project - btw a suggestion for the folks organizing this, one way to limit seasons if that's what you want could be to dissallow consecutive seasons i.e. If Jordan 91 has already been voted in, then Jordan 90' and Jordan 92 can't be voted on, but Jordan 89 can.

That way you can divide a players careers into a number of mini peaks and compare say first three peat Jordan with second three peat Jordan vs. comparing 91 Jordan with 90 Jordan, which to me is essentially the same player.

Also, here's a random question for you guys -
Which season would you rank higher 03-04 KG or - 07-08 KG

This idea, I like it. Another!

1. It wouldn't totally eliminate redundant debates like 90 Jordan vs. 91 Jordan or 64 Russell vs. 65 Russell, because we still might have the debate in the first place deciding which season to vote in, but it would stream-line the process like crazy without making sure we don't not pay heed to the majority of awesome seasons.

2. Put it this way. If '08 KG lands on the '04 Wolves (58-24, WCF), you're looking at probably about 48-50 wins MAX and probably a first round exit. He was a demonic defensive player in '08, but his postseason scoring numbers are terrible. That '04 Wolves team needed every point he produced. '04 KG on the '08 Celtics is a scary proposition, as a Laker fan I wouldn't want to think about it.

[PTB Fan]

Good project. Wonder if i could participate here.. Would definitely love to do.

Here's a list of players i'd consider in this list

67 Wilt, 91 Jordan, 00 Shaq, 62 Russell, 63 Robertson, 80 Kareem, 09 LeBron, 87 Magic, 75 Barry, 03 Duncan, 61/62 Baylor, 70 West, 03 KG, 77 Walton, 76 Doc (if we can consider this), 86 Bird, 72 Archibald, 75 McAdoo, 94 Hakeem, 83 Moses, 93 Barlkley (not sure though), 72 Hondo etc.

[ardee]

Good project. Wonder if i could participate here.. Would definitely love to do.

Here's a list of players i'd consider in this list

67 Wilt, 91 Jordan, 00 Shaq, 62 Russell, 63 Robertson, 80 Kareem, 09 LeBron, 87 Magic, 75 Barry, 03 Duncan, 61/62 Baylor, 70 West, 03 KG, 77 Walton, 76 Doc (if we can consider this), 86 Bird, 72 Archibald, 75 McAdoo, 94 Hakeem, 83 Moses, 93 Barlkley (not sure though), 72 Hondo etc.

Is that in order?

[ardee]

Bump?

Season will be over soon, should we at least set up a voting panel? Tbh, I feel that it should not be as selective as the Top 100 voting. This is a board for everyone, and picking and choosing 'elite' posters smacks of arrogance and a sense of entitlement. Everyone has the right to express their opinion, that's the point of the board...

[Rapcity_11]

Bump?

Season will be over soon, should we at least set up a voting panel? Tbh, I feel that it should not be as selective as the Top 100 voting. This is a board for everyone, and picking and choosing 'elite' posters smacks of arrogance and a sense of entitlement. Everyone has the right to express their opinion, that's the point of the board...

Everyone did have the right to express an opinion during the top 100 voting. And if they could actually type out a few coherent arguments they were allowed to vote. It wasn't nearly was selective as you make it seem.

[PTB Fan]

Good project. Wonder if i could participate here.. Would definitely love to do.

Here's a list of players i'd consider in this list

67 Wilt, 91 Jordan, 00 Shaq, 62 Russell, 63 Robertson, 80 Kareem, 09 LeBron, 87 Magic, 75 Barry, 03 Duncan, 61/62 Baylor, 70 West, 03 KG, 77 Walton, 76 Doc (if we can consider this), 86 Bird, 72 Archibald, 75 McAdoo, 94 Hakeem, 83 Moses, 93 Barlkley (not sure though), 72 Hondo etc.

Is that in order?

No, that's not in order. However it is a group of players, i'd seriously consider them in makings of a list. Could i participate? Or i need a specific list?

[ardee]

Good project. Wonder if i could participate here.. Would definitely love to do.

Here's a list of players i'd consider in this list

67 Wilt, 91 Jordan, 00 Shaq, 62 Russell, 63 Robertson, 80 Kareem, 09 LeBron, 87 Magic, 75 Barry, 03 Duncan, 61/62 Baylor, 70 West, 03 KG, 77 Walton, 76 Doc (if we can consider this), 86 Bird, 72 Archibald, 75 McAdoo, 94 Hakeem, 83 Moses, 93 Barlkley (not sure though), 72 Hondo etc.

Is that in order?

No, that's not in order. However it is a group of players, i'd seriously consider them in makings of a list. Could i participate? Or i need a specific list?

Hey, if it was only up to me, anyone who is not obviously trolling would be able to participate. But I think what the mods prefer is to select voters based on their contributions to the pre-list discussion. I suppose submitting an ordered list wouldn't hurt.

Retrospectively, the desicion to wait until after the Playoffs was great. I think if Durant and LeBron continue in this vein of form, both would merit being in the top 20. In particular Durant, who's run is reminding me of last year's Dirk PLUS a killer regular season.

[PTB Fan]

^^^

I'm not that active here, but hopefully the mods will give me a chance.

[tclg]

67 Wilt, 91 Jordan, 93 Jordan, 88 Jordan , 00 Shaq, 62 Russell, 63 Robertson, 80 Kareem, 77 Kareem, 09 LeBron, 87 Magic ,89 Magic, 75 Barry, 03 Duncan, 61/62 Baylor, 70 West, 03 KG, 77 Walton, 76 Doc 81 Doc , 86 Bird, 85 Bird, 72 Archibald, 75 McAdoo, 94 Hakeem, 83 Moses ,82 Moses, 93 Barlkley , 72 Hondo

Im sure there are more seasons but this should be fine to start off the top ten

[C-izMe]

I'm sure it's just a typo but did you mean 04 KG??

Also I'm not sure if Hondo, Archibald, Barry, Chuck and McAdoo should be there. Also I'd like to add Kareem 76. What he did with that team is amazing.