Karl Malone vs. Dirk Nowitzki

[ahonui06]

Dallas was not better than those Jazz teams.

Maybe, maybe not, but one thing for sure is that Dallas's competition was much worse than the Jazz's competition so it evens out.

The truth is that the Jazz really never had much outside of Malone and Stockton but once they did have some players outside of those two they ran into Michael Jordan.

Please explain how either the 1997 or 1998 Finals teams had tougher competition than DIRK's 2011 Mavs?

[WhateverBro]

Dallas was not better than those Jazz teams.

Maybe, maybe not, but one thing for sure is that Dallas's competition was much worse than the Jazz's competition so it evens out.

The truth is that the Jazz really never had much outside of Malone and Stockton but once they did have some players outside of those two they ran into Michael Jordan.

Please explain how either the 1997 or 1998 Finals teams had tougher competition than DIRK's 2011 Mavs?

Well, in 97 they beat Lakers with Shaq, Eddie Jones, Van Exel and Elden Campbell. They also beat Rockets with Hakeem, Barkley and Drexler and ultimately faced the Bulls. Aside from the Clippers in the first round, that was some pretty tough competition.

In 98 they faced the same Rocket team, Spurs with Duncan and Robinson, an improved Laker team with Shaq, Eddie Jones, Horry, Fisher, Fox, Kobe etc. and again faced Bulls in the finals.

They certainly didn't have a cakewalk to the finals and well there in the finals, they faced a much tougher opponent than Dallas did.

[Cpt Lebyadkin]

Pretty sure the only reason people don't want to choose DIRK is because he is European and white.

Yes, that must be it.

Or maybe they think he was better at basketball?

If that was the case they would pick DIRK. He's a better basketball player and does more for his team obviously.

the European part you got right, but the white reference, you couldn't be further from the truth. Karl Malone is definitely more white than Dirk!

[AnaheimRoyale]

Worth also qualifying that "they beat Barkely, Clyde & Hakeem!!!" statement. In 1997 Hakeem, Barkley and Clyde were in their mid 30's, and were clearly no longer at peak levels, I'm not even sure I'd be willing to say any of the 3 were still in their prime, or even particularly close to their prime levels. In 1998 the leading minute getter for the Rockets was Kevin Willis. That playoffs their ages had completely caught up to them, Barkley didn't even play the deciding game (and was playing 21mpg for the series). I think you can talk up the Jazz opponents in 1997, but let's not say ridiculous things without context. Hakeem, Clyde and Barkley were no longer Hakeem, Clyde and Barkley in 97 (and especially 98), they were fading fast.

[WhateverBro]

Worth also qualifying that "they beat Barkely, Clyde & Hakeem!!!" statement. In 1997 Hakeem, Barkley and Clyde were in their mid 30's, and were clearly no longer at peak levels, I'm not even sure I'd be willing to say any of the 3 were still in their prime, or even particularly close to their prime levels. In 1998 the leading minute getter for the Rockets was Kevin Willis. That playoffs their ages had completely caught up to them, Barkley didn't even play the deciding game (and was playing 21mpg for the series). I think you can talk up the Jazz opponents in 1997, but let's not say ridiculous things without context. Hakeem, Clyde and Barkley were no longer Hakeem, Clyde and Barkley in 97 (and especially 98), they were fading fast.

I'm well aware of the situation and wasn't trying to prop up Malone by overrating the opponents he faced. I even rate Nowitzki higher than Malone so there was no agenda. I was simply pointing out that Malone didn't have a cakewalk to the finals and well there he faced a tougher opposition than Dirk did in '11.

That '97 Rockets team was still a pretty good team though. Hakeem and Barkley were both in the last yaer of their prime and the team finished top 10 both offensively and defensively. They even beat a stacked Seattle team before facing Utah. I do agree about your point about the '98 version of the team, they did see a drop-off between the two seasons. But that year, they faced an even stronger Laker team with Shaq at his peakish level. Beating that team was probably a much tougher thing to do than anything Dallas did in '11, not to mention going against Jordan yet again in the finals.

[QuantMisleads]

btw, the Jazz totally raped LA in that conference finals, Malone treated them like children

[gordito]

Damn. Only on RealGM could a debate between Dirk and Malone be in Dirk's favor. How is this even close?

[thizznation]

Dirk's playoff run to the championship was amazing, and something that Malone never was able to do. It makes it a close call.

[ahonui06]

Damn. Only on RealGM could a debate between Dirk and Malone be in Dirk's favor. How is this even close?

Does Malone have a title or Finals MVP? That's why it's DIRK..

[RalphWiggum]

Damn. Only on RealGM could a debate between Dirk and Malone be in Dirk's favor. How is this even close?

Does Malone have a title or Finals MVP? That's why it's DIRK..

I guess Ben Roethlisberger is better than Dan Marino too then. The title has weight, I'm not going to dismiss it but that's not enough to make him a better player than Malone. Another 3-4 good to great seasons would do it for me.

[thizznation]

btw, the Jazz totally ***** LA in that conference finals, Malone treated them like children

and we all know how Malone treats children....

[Texas Chuck]

Damn. Only on RealGM could a debate between Dirk and Malone be in Dirk's favor. How is this even close?

some people on RealGM rightfully take playoffs into account. RS is obv Mailman but playoffs are just as obv Dirk.

[QuantMisleads]

No, it isn't. People who say Malone underperformed in playoffs don't understand basketball. Pointing to stats is meaningless without context. And most people point to stats without any context. Ie they make QUESTIONABLE statements, read below.

[Texas Chuck]

ok then please give me the "context" where Mailman is a better playoff performer than Dirk. Ill listen if you make an actual case.

[Lightning25]

ok then please give me the "context" where Mailman is a better playoff performer than Dirk. Ill listen if you make an actual case.

He posted it in page 5...

Malone is the better player. The reason Malone didn't do as well in the playoffs is the way the Utah offense was structured. It was top heavy, with the other players lacking the necessary skill to help push them over the top, and that goes for Stockton as well who offensively just didn't shoot enough. Everyone knows it all went through Malone, and stopping one man is easier than stopping a team. Another reason why his numbers dipped is that Malone played similar minutes to what he did in the regular season. This is also why Wilt Chamberlain's numbers dipped, for these two reasons, especially the latter, because he played all 48 minutes no matter the occasion.

but respect goes out to Dirk for sure

I would like to see the per 36 minute stats of these two players in the post-season.

[Texas Chuck]

Thats not making a case. Thats making an excuse. Hardly the same thing at all.

[ahonui06]

Damn. Only on RealGM could a debate between Dirk and Malone be in Dirk's favor. How is this even close?

Does Malone have a title or Finals MVP? That's why it's DIRK..

I guess Ben Roethlisberger is better than Dan Marino too then. The title has weight, I'm not going to dismiss it but that's not enough to make him a better player than Malone. Another 3-4 good to great seasons would do it for me.

He most certainly is. I value Big Ben's two Super Bowl titles over anything Marino has ever done. Marino made it to the Super Bowl and got destroyed by the GOAT QB Montana. It wasn't even close. 38-16 blowout. At least in Big Ben's only SB loss he had a tight game against the Packers.

[ahonui06]

Malone is the better player. The reason Malone didn't do as well in the playoffs is the way the Utah offense was structured. It was top heavy, with the other players lacking the necessary skill to help push them over the top, and that goes for Stockton as well who offensively just didn't shoot enough. Everyone knows it all went through Malone, and stopping one man is easier than stopping a team. Another reason why his numbers dipped is that Malone played similar minutes to what he did in the regular season. This is also why Wilt Chamberlain's numbers dipped, for these two reasons, especially the latter, because he played all 48 minutes no matter the occasion.

but respect goes out to Dirk for sure

I would like to see the per 36 minute stats of these two players in the post-season.

That isn't a reason for Malone's decline. It's an excuse. DIRK's teammates didn't step up in the postseason either, but he still found a way to maintain his efficiency and improve his play in the playoffs.

Malone played 7,907 minutes in 193 games. 7907/193 = 40.97 minutes per game.
40.97/36=1.14 That is our divisor for Malone's stats.
Karl Malone PS per 36: 21.7 & 9.4

DIRK played 5,281 minutes in 128 games. 5281/128 = 41.26 minutes per game.
41.26/36=1.15 That is our divisor for DIRK's stats.
DIRK PS per 36: 22.5 & 9.0

And obviously percentages don't change with per 36.

[JordansBulls]

Damn. Only on RealGM could a debate between Dirk and Malone be in Dirk's favor. How is this even close?

Does Malone have a title or Finals MVP? That's why it's DIRK..

I guess Ben Roethlisberger is better than Dan Marino too then. The title has weight, I'm not going to dismiss it but that's not enough to make him a better player than Malone. Another 3-4 good to great seasons would do it for me.

Not the same. There numbers are fairly similar http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... 01&y2=2012

[Woodsanity]

No matter how you look at it Dirk was an infinitely better playoffs performer and that is ultimately what matters most.