The Lebron Thread (2014-15 Pt. 2)

[JordansBulls]

Anyone know if he's for sure out tonight or gametime decision??

Haven't seen anything as of yet. Will keep you posted on it.

[JulesWinnfield]

Most Heat fans have moved on. The very tiny vocal minority spews hate and saltiness but that's to be expected. And that's not anything new either. Lakers' fans will still hate on Howard, Cavs fans used to spew a lot more hate on the GB the last 4 years etc. Some of you LeBron only fans and the media also amuse me. The feeling is mutual. Yeah, he left and I still remain a fan of his game but you can't expect people to not get upset at all. Most have moved on, some will continue to hate and display saltiness. As 'fans' that's their right, doesn't bother me. I still enjoy his game (and remain a fan) though I don't root for the Cavs but it's funny to expect that all fans should be thankful. What did you think was gonna happen after he left? Of course, there are going to be some lingering negative feelings.

Saying that you are happy to witness the dumpster fire that's Miami is equally as bad. Whatever.

I agree with just about everything youre saying here, paulie. I want to make clear that with regards to my dumpster fire comment, i dont necessarily have any ill will or hatred for the heat franchise at all. And i understand (and said as much) that a portion of any fanbase would feel the way some did. Its purely about the fact that over the last 4 years there has been a vocal group of uneducated basketball fans who have overrated the hell out of his surrounding talent based on name power to make it sound like his accomplishments in that era were somehow less than earned. I love seeing that narrative die a quick death, because it deserved to, he was miamis mr. everything.. The relationship was mutually beneficial to be sure, i dont mean to diminish the positive impact miami had on lebron. But these were never going to be the 94 bulls when their star bounced. It was always a wildly overrated supporting cast relative to other multi time title casts

[PaulieWal]

Most Heat fans have moved on. The very tiny vocal minority spews hate and saltiness but that's to be expected. And that's not anything new either. Lakers' fans will still hate on Howard, Cavs fans used to spew a lot more hate on the GB the last 4 years etc. Some of you LeBron only fans and the media also amuse me. The feeling is mutual. Yeah, he left and I still remain a fan of his game but you can't expect people to not get upset at all. Most have moved on, some will continue to hate and display saltiness. As 'fans' that's their right, doesn't bother me. I still enjoy his game (and remain a fan) though I don't root for the Cavs but it's funny to expect that all fans should be thankful. What did you think was gonna happen after he left? Of course, there are going to be some lingering negative feelings.

Saying that you are happy to witness the dumpster fire that's Miami is equally as bad. Whatever.

I agree with just about everything youre saying here, paulie. I want to make clear that with regards to my dumpster fire comment, i dont necessarily have any ill will or hatred for the heat franchise at all. And i understand (and said as much) that a portion of any fanbase would feel the way some did. Its purely about the fact that over the last 4 years there has been a vocal group of uneducated basketball fans who have overrated the hell out of his surrounding talent based on name power to make it sound like his accomplishments in that era were somehow less than earned. I love seeing that narrative die a quick death, because it deserved to, he was miamis mr. everything.. The relationship was mutually beneficial to be sure, i dont mean to diminish the positive impact miami had on lebron. But these were never going to be the 94 bulls when their star bounced. It was always a wildly overrated supporting cast relative to other multi time title casts

Yeah, but those uneducated fans weren't Miami fans. For Heat fans it's a double whammy. When LeBron was on the Heat it was all about the cHeat, collusion, and stacked team which made the rings meaningless. Now that LeBron's gone it's all about a bunch of scrubs who did nothing to help him. I don't care for these narratives but you have to understand why some Heat fans get so defensive when RealGM says (using this site as a microcosm) that LeBron was carrying a bunch of scrubs to rings. LeBron was obviously the best player and carried a tremendous load but also received help (as do all superstars on title teams). Yeah, in 2014 the team looked extremely washed-up and old but that's not a representative of what the team was from 2011-2013. Not even close.

You should blame the anti-Miami/LeBron fans who used to run with the narrative that Miami was some super stacked team when the rational fans knew it wasn't especially after Wade's completely premature and unexpected rapid physical decline.

[kennygee90]

Most Heat fans have moved on. The very tiny vocal minority spews hate and saltiness but that's to be expected. And that's not anything new either. Lakers' fans will still hate on Howard, Cavs fans used to spew a lot more hate on the GB the last 4 years etc. Some of you LeBron only fans and the media also amuse me. The feeling is mutual. Yeah, he left and I still remain a fan of his game but you can't expect people to not get upset at all. Most have moved on, some will continue to hate and display saltiness. As 'fans' that's their right, doesn't bother me. I still enjoy his game (and remain a fan) though I don't root for the Cavs but it's funny to expect that all fans should be thankful. What did you think was gonna happen after he left? Of course, there are going to be some lingering negative feelings.

Saying that you are happy to witness the dumpster fire that's Miami is equally as bad. Whatever.

I agree with just about everything youre saying here, paulie. I want to make clear that with regards to my dumpster fire comment, i dont necessarily have any ill will or hatred for the heat franchise at all. And i understand (and said as much) that a portion of any fanbase would feel the way some did. Its purely about the fact that over the last 4 years there has been a vocal group of uneducated basketball fans who have overrated the hell out of his surrounding talent based on name power to make it sound like his accomplishments in that era were somehow less than earned. I love seeing that narrative die a quick death, because it deserved to, he was miamis mr. everything.. The relationship was mutually beneficial to be sure, i dont mean to diminish the positive impact miami had on lebron. But these were never going to be the 94 bulls when their star bounced. It was always a wildly overrated supporting cast relative to other multi time title casts

The 2011-2013 Heat team was as talented as you can get within the confines of the cba. Lebron's game is a big part of why he was Mr. Everything as you call it. His teams need to fit around him, instead of him fitting around the team (if that makes sense). Alot of the blame should go on him since he chose his teammates. He got all the glory when he won and he got most of the blame when he lost, which is only right cause he was the main guy. Any other superstar would get blamed for losing with a quality team, so lebron shouldn't be an exception.

[JulesWinnfield]

Paulie, i dont really have an issue with heat fans. But you know as well as anyone that if miami went on to have some 1994 bulls type season this year (which i never expected to happen) it would undoubtedly be used as ammo and perceived validation by those who were pushing the ill concieved agenda we were talking about above. As a fan of lebron and a fan of fairness, i like seeing that off the table with miami spinning their wheels as they have. His versatility and shear greatness covered up many issues that didnt just suddenly show up on miami's doorstep this season. One of my favorite things about the move was not only the going home aspect or the better long term help aspect, but the fact that his departure would give us a window into life for the "big 2" without him, and while wade had enough left to make it a fair view. Because i never expected that view to be all that flattering. This is still a team who cant rebound, is weak on the defensive interior, has literally no true center and no real pg on the roster, and has trouble keeping wade healthy. Most teams with that set of issues (at least the ones without the worlds best player) arent going to be very good. None of these issues are new. Lebron was just a major deodorant.

Of course the talent around lebron was a tad better at points in miami than the team he exited after last year. They peaked in the 2013 regular season before wade got his bone bruise. But it was never the best mix, and most of what currently ails them is not new. I also think they suffer defensively a bit from shear effort and focus issues now that title contention is off the table. They just arent invested in the grind any more having been spoiled. They shouldnt be this brutal defensively solely because of lebrons absence

[PaulieWal]

Paulie, i dont really have an issue with heat fans. But you know as well as anyone that if miami went on to have some 1994 bulls type season this year (which i never expected to happen) it would undoubtedly be used as ammo and perceived validation by those who were pushing the ill concieved agenda we were talking about above. As a fan of lebron and a fan of fairness, i like seeing that off the table with miami spinning their wheels as they have. His versatility and shear greatness covered up many issues that didnt just suddenly show up on miami's doorstep this season. One of my favorite things about the move was not only the going home aspect or the better long term help aspect, but the fact that his departure would give us a window into life for the "big 2" without him, and while wade had enough left to make it a fair view. Because i never expected that view to be all that flattering. This is still a team who cant rebound, is weak on the defensive interior, has literally no true center and no real pg on the roster, and has trouble keeping wade healthy. Most teams with that set of issues (at least the ones without the worlds best player) arent going to be very good. None of these issues are new. Lebron was just a major deodorant.

Of course the talent around lebron was a tad better at points in miami than the team he exited after last year. They peaked in the 2013 regular season before wade got his bone bruise. But it was never the best mix, and most of what currently ails them is not new. I also think they suffer defensively a bit from shear effort and focus issues now that title contention is off the table. They just arent invested in the grind any more having been spoiled. They shouldnt be this brutal defensively solely because of lebrons absence

And again those pushing the superteam agendas were never Miami fans so I am not sure I follow. Miami fans and most knew the team's weaknesses: rebounding, interior defense, and PG play. LeBron didn't need to leave for Miami/rational fans to know that. That point is a bit irrelevant. They shouldn't be this brutal defensively but it's not all LeBron. Birdman hasn't played much, Shawne Williams is horrible defensively, Battier even in his old age still had high IQ, Wade is a year older and sucks defensively for the most part. Their only plus defenders right now are Cole, Deng, and Bosh. Deng has been inconsistent as well because of injuries right now.

The Big 2 is looking fine. Wade's efficiency is barely down from last year and he's looked good in the games he's played. Bosh has more volume to handle now so his raw numbers are up as expected. Saying LeBron left so they shouldn't suck as bad is disingenuous. Meaning yeah, without LeBron they were going to be a middling playoff team at best but the team has already dealt with its fair share of injures to Birdman, McBob (who's looked great when he's been on the floor), Deng, and Wade. So it's not just LeBron leaving, the new pieces that they acquired have been injured themselves.

Seems to me you are just blasting the agenda of First Take type analysis/the regular trolls in this thread as you should but Miami didn't have to look good or bad for that. We all knew the weaknesses and if the team had enjoyed better health so far they would probably be a 4-6th seed.

[JulesWinnfield]

Most Heat fans have moved on. The very tiny vocal minority spews hate and saltiness but that's to be expected. And that's not anything new either. Lakers' fans will still hate on Howard, Cavs fans used to spew a lot more hate on the GB the last 4 years etc. Some of you LeBron only fans and the media also amuse me. The feeling is mutual. Yeah, he left and I still remain a fan of his game but you can't expect people to not get upset at all. Most have moved on, some will continue to hate and display saltiness. As 'fans' that's their right, doesn't bother me. I still enjoy his game (and remain a fan) though I don't root for the Cavs but it's funny to expect that all fans should be thankful. What did you think was gonna happen after he left? Of course, there are going to be some lingering negative feelings.

Saying that you are happy to witness the dumpster fire that's Miami is equally as bad. Whatever.

I agree with just about everything youre saying here, paulie. I want to make clear that with regards to my dumpster fire comment, i dont necessarily have any ill will or hatred for the heat franchise at all. And i understand (and said as much) that a portion of any fanbase would feel the way some did. Its purely about the fact that over the last 4 years there has been a vocal group of uneducated basketball fans who have overrated the hell out of his surrounding talent based on name power to make it sound like his accomplishments in that era were somehow less than earned. I love seeing that narrative die a quick death, because it deserved to, he was miamis mr. everything.. The relationship was mutually beneficial to be sure, i dont mean to diminish the positive impact miami had on lebron. But these were never going to be the 94 bulls when their star bounced. It was always a wildly overrated supporting cast relative to other multi time title casts

The 2011-2013 Heat team was as talented as you can get within the confines of the cba. Lebron's game is a big part of why he was Mr. Everything as you call it. His teams need to fit around him, instead of him fitting around the team (if that makes sense). Alot of the blame should go on him since he chose his teammates. He got all the glory when he won and he got most of the blame when he lost, which is only right cause he was the main guy. Any other superstar would get blamed for losing with a quality team, so lebron shouldn't be an exception.

the 2011 team who had joel anthony 4th in playoff minutes is as talented as you can get under the cba? Lebron had his failures in the dallas series but that team had serious flaws and later scrapped their entire offensive system the following offseason. That was the best version of wade he played with for sure

as for the 12 and 13 teams you dont account whatsoever for things like them being a historical anomaly winning rings while being horribly bad on the boards (they were built by a man who coined the phrase "no rebounds, no rings", and he was right until this group). The fact that they didnt even have a body resembling a center, let alone an effective one, and watched "future hofer chris bosh" get outplayed in the majority of playoff series played after round 1 as he played out of position, making guys like roy hibbert look like wilt. You dont account for the injuries they faced in both playoff runs between bosh and wade..He absolutely carried those teams as much as one guy could. The notion that miamis roster was flawed because lebron needed to be built around in some unique way is absurd. Its never the best laid plan for one guy to lead you in scoring, rebounding, assists and be your best defender at about 4 positions. That doesnt happen by design. That happens when you just go make a talent grab like they did in 2010 and then hope youll figure out the dynamics later. Lebrons versatility was the glue that held a flawed mix together and was the driving force behind figuring it out.

[RSCD3_]

Looks like he's playing


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[RSCD3_]

Most Heat fans have moved on. The very tiny vocal minority spews hate and saltiness but that's to be expected. And that's not anything new either. Lakers' fans will still hate on Howard, Cavs fans used to spew a lot more hate on the GB the last 4 years etc. Some of you LeBron only fans and the media also amuse me. The feeling is mutual. Yeah, he left and I still remain a fan of his game but you can't expect people to not get upset at all. Most have moved on, some will continue to hate and display saltiness. As 'fans' that's their right, doesn't bother me. I still enjoy his game (and remain a fan) though I don't root for the Cavs but it's funny to expect that all fans should be thankful. What did you think was gonna happen after he left? Of course, there are going to be some lingering negative feelings.

Saying that you are happy to witness the dumpster fire that's Miami is equally as bad. Whatever.

I agree with just about everything youre saying here, paulie. I want to make clear that with regards to my dumpster fire comment, i dont necessarily have any ill will or hatred for the heat franchise at all. And i understand (and said as much) that a portion of any fanbase would feel the way some did. Its purely about the fact that over the last 4 years there has been a vocal group of uneducated basketball fans who have overrated the hell out of his surrounding talent based on name power to make it sound like his accomplishments in that era were somehow less than earned. I love seeing that narrative die a quick death, because it deserved to, he was miamis mr. everything.. The relationship was mutually beneficial to be sure, i dont mean to diminish the positive impact miami had on lebron. But these were never going to be the 94 bulls when their star bounced. It was always a wildly overrated supporting cast relative to other multi time title casts

Yeah, but those uneducated fans weren't Miami fans. For Heat fans it's a double whammy. When LeBron was on the Heat it was all about the cHeat, collusion, and stacked team which made the rings meaningless. Now that LeBron's gone it's all about a bunch of scrubs who did nothing to help him. I don't care for these narratives but you have to understand why some Heat fans get so defensive when RealGM says (using this site as a microcosm) that LeBron was carrying a bunch of scrubs to rings. LeBron was obviously the best player and carried a tremendous load but also received help (as do all superstars on title teams). Yeah, in 2014 the team looked extremely washed-up and old but that's not a representative of what the team was from 2011-2013. Not even close.

You should blame the anti-Miami/LeBron fans who used to run with the narrative that Miami was some super stacked team when the rational fans knew it wasn't especially after Wade's completely premature and unexpected rapid physical decline.

Also a lot of the Miami fans who joined after the finals are a lot more down on him than the heat fans on here for the runs. So it's a different crowd in a lot of ways








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[PaulieWal]

Also a lot of the Miami fans who joined after the finals are a lot more down on him than the heat fans on here for the runs. So it's a different crowd in a lot of ways

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

Yeah, there's been an influx of new members that joined in 2014 around the time of the Finals and they are more down on him but still as I said as fans that's their right. Anytime a free agent, especially a generational player like him or a superstar leaves fans will get upset. Hell Jason Terry was getting booed in Sacramento last night and he's Jason Terry who did nothing for that franchise.

[RSCD3_]

Also a lot of the Miami fans who joined after the finals are a lot more down on him than the heat fans on here for the runs. So it's a different crowd in a lot of ways

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

Yeah, there's been an influx of new members that joined in 2014 around the time of the Finals and they are more down on him but still as I said as fans that's their right. Anytime a free agent, especially a generational player like him or a superstar leaves fans will get upset. Hell Jason Terry was getting booed in Sacramento last night and he's Jason Terry who did nothing for that franchise.

Wonder if they would boo Gerald Wallace


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[Greatness]

Not gonna name any names, but all I'm gonna say is that I lurk the Heat boards from time to time and see some disgraceful stuff there regarding LeBron. It isn't a small percentage of guys who feel that way either. It was different leaving Cleveland since he didn't win there and 'The Decision'. No harm being upset, but at least appreciate what he accomplished there. To be honest, I would go to the Heat board often when LeBron was still in Miami and I would always get the vibe that there was a decent chunk of posters who weren't big fans of all the credit LeBron would receive while their favourite player (Wade) didn't get nearly as much. Of course not all of them were like that, and there were and remain great posters on that board.

[datstockton]

Thought the smart decision would be to sit this one out, but clearly he feels good enough to play. Let's see how he plays.

[kennygee90]

I agree with just about everything youre saying here, paulie. I want to make clear that with regards to my dumpster fire comment, i dont necessarily have any ill will or hatred for the heat franchise at all. And i understand (and said as much) that a portion of any fanbase would feel the way some did. Its purely about the fact that over the last 4 years there has been a vocal group of uneducated basketball fans who have overrated the hell out of his surrounding talent based on name power to make it sound like his accomplishments in that era were somehow less than earned. I love seeing that narrative die a quick death, because it deserved to, he was miamis mr. everything.. The relationship was mutually beneficial to be sure, i dont mean to diminish the positive impact miami had on lebron. But these were never going to be the 94 bulls when their star bounced. It was always a wildly overrated supporting cast relative to other multi time title casts

The 2011-2013 Heat team was as talented as you can get within the confines of the cba. Lebron's game is a big part of why he was Mr. Everything as you call it. His teams need to fit around him, instead of him fitting around the team (if that makes sense). Alot of the blame should go on him since he chose his teammates. He got all the glory when he won and he got most of the blame when he lost, which is only right cause he was the main guy. Any other superstar would get blamed for losing with a quality team, so lebron shouldn't be an exception.

the 2011 team who had joel anthony 4th in playoff minutes is as talented as you can get under the cba? Lebron had his failures in the dallas series but that team had serious flaws and later scrapped their entire offensive system the following offseason. That was the best version of wade he played with for sure

as for the 12 and 13 teams you dont account whatsoever for things like them being a historical anomaly winning rings while being horribly bad on the boards (they were built by a man who coined the phrase "no rebounds, no rings", and he was right until this group). The fact that they didnt even have a body resembling a center, let alone an effective one, and watched "future hofer chris bosh" get outplayed in the majority of playoff series played after round 1 as he played out of position, making guys like roy hibbert look like wilt. You dont account for the injuries they faced in both playoff runs between bosh and wade..He absolutely carried those teams as much as one guy could. The notion that miamis roster was flawed because lebron needed to be built around in some unique way is absurd. Its never the best laid plan for one guy to lead you in scoring, rebounding, assists and be your best defender at about 4 positions. That doesnt happen by design. That happens when you just go make a talent grab like they did in 2010 and then hope youll figure out the dynamics later. Lebrons versatility was the glue that held a flawed mix together and was the driving force behind figuring it out.

what exactly did you expect? Every team has weaknesses. An all star guard, all star power forward, and the best player in the NBA = NO Excuses. Your complaining because the Heat didn't have a quality center, and Point guard? You can't have everything. Lebron chose these players, he chose to team up with bosh, so he can't complain about about that. Most teams are first round playoff caliber teams without their best players. The Heat used their spacing and lack of size to their advantage against most teams, your just complaining because teams that could exploit their weaknesses gave them a hard time or beat them. Yes, Lebron was the glue that held the team together, but that's because the team was built to get the best out of him.

[PaulieWal]

To be honest, I would go to the Heat board often when LeBron was still in Miami and I would always get the vibe that there was a decent chunk of posters who weren't big fans of all the credit LeBron would receive while their favourite player (Wade) didn't get nearly as much. Of course not all of them were like that, and there were and remain great posters on that board.

You are no stranger to this. There was also a big chunk of "LeBron only" guys that used to post on the Heat board and who don't post anymore there, who would blame everybody else on the team or make excuses for him whenever he played badly. That kinda poisoned the forum as old-time Heat fans would get upset at those fans. Hell in this thread people like you and I and other LeBron fans (SSB even) have been critical of him whenever he has underperformed but a some fans there would always make it about LeBron vs. the rest of the team.

The reason I say you are no stranger to that is that I lurk the Raps forums and I see so many factions of DD guys vs. Ross guys vs. the Val guys vs. Casey guys . That's only natural and you can't look at that and say this was something unique to the Heat board.

[Greatness]

To be honest, I would go to the Heat board often when LeBron was still in Miami and I would always get the vibe that there was a decent chunk of posters who weren't big fans of all the credit LeBron would receive while their favourite player (Wade) didn't get nearly as much. Of course not all of them were like that, and there were and remain great posters on that board.

You are no stranger to this. There was also a big chunk of "LeBron only" guys that used to post on the Heat board and who don't post anymore there, who would blame everybody else on the team or make excuses for him whenever he played badly. That kinda poisoned the forum as old-time Heat fans would get upset at those fans. Hell in this thread people like you and I and other LeBron fans (SSB even) have been critical of him whenever he has underperformed but a some fans there would always make it about LeBron vs. the rest of the team.

The reason I say you are no stranger to that is that I lurk the Raps forums and I see so many factions of DD guys vs. Ross guys vs. the Val guys vs. Casey guys . That's only natural and you can't look at that and say this was something unique to the Heat board.

Good points. That's why you're my favourite Heat poster.

[PaulieWal]

To be honest, I would go to the Heat board often when LeBron was still in Miami and I would always get the vibe that there was a decent chunk of posters who weren't big fans of all the credit LeBron would receive while their favourite player (Wade) didn't get nearly as much. Of course not all of them were like that, and there were and remain great posters on that board.

You are no stranger to this. There was also a big chunk of "LeBron only" guys that used to post on the Heat board and who don't post anymore there, who would blame everybody else on the team or make excuses for him whenever he played badly. That kinda poisoned the forum as old-time Heat fans would get upset at those fans. Hell in this thread people like you and I and other LeBron fans (SSB even) have been critical of him whenever he has underperformed but a some fans there would always make it about LeBron vs. the rest of the team.

The reason I say you are no stranger to that is that I lurk the Raps forums and I see so many factions of DD guys vs. Ross guys vs. the Val guys vs. Casey guys . That's only natural and you can't look at that and say this was something unique to the Heat board.

Good points. That's why you're my favourite Heat poster.

Not sure if you were lurking last year but we had a Beasley faction and it was hilarious to see the Beasley guys attack Spo and the team after every loss lol. The most fun I have on Raps forum is reading the Val guys argue against the anti-Val guys.

[Greatness]

You are no stranger to this. There was also a big chunk of "LeBron only" guys that used to post on the Heat board and who don't post anymore there, who would blame everybody else on the team or make excuses for him whenever he played badly. That kinda poisoned the forum as old-time Heat fans would get upset at those fans. Hell in this thread people like you and I and other LeBron fans (SSB even) have been critical of him whenever he has underperformed but a some fans there would always make it about LeBron vs. the rest of the team.

The reason I say you are no stranger to that is that I lurk the Raps forums and I see so many factions of DD guys vs. Ross guys vs. the Val guys vs. Casey guys . That's only natural and you can't look at that and say this was something unique to the Heat board.

Good points. That's why you're my favourite Heat poster.

Not sure if you were lurking last year but we had a Beasley faction and it was hilarious to see the Beasley guys attack Spo and the team after every loss lol. The most fun I have on Raps forum is reading the Val guys argue against the anti-Val guys.

Oh yeah, the Beasley stuff was gold. The Raps guys going at each other regarding DD, Ross, and Val is some of the best stuff on the Internet. Literally every make/miss validates their stance

[PCProductions]

Great lift on his first bucket.

[Greatness]

Oh boy he looks good