Moderators: Clyde Frazier, Doctor MJ, trex_8063, penbeast0, PaulieWal
Jurassic_Park wrote:How much of a collapse does Harden have to have after all star break to NOT finish 1st?
Ever since he said he wanted that mvp, he went on a tear beyond belief
Jurassic_Park wrote:How much of a collapse does Harden have to have after all star break to NOT finish 1st?
Ever since he said he wanted that mvp, he went on a tear beyond belief
trex_8063 wrote:Who's everyone got as the top candidates for DPOY so far?
trex_8063 wrote:Who's everyone got as the top candidates for DPOY so far?
imho......
Obviously Rudy Gobert is right there in the talk: reigning DPOY, mid-season DRAPM is +2.46 (2nd in league), and +4.71 DRPM (1st in league). Currently anchoring the tied-for-3rd-best defense in the league; the two best defensive FF's for the Jazz are the two things a defensive big probably influences most: DREB% (2nd in league) and opp eFG% (9th in league). Jazz perimeter players are able to chase guys off the 3pt line because they know Rudy's backing up the paint (consequently Jazz allow the 2nd-fewest 3PA's in the league).
Paul George has got to be in the talk too: OKC is the team tied with the Jazz as the 3rd-best defense; the defensive FF they're best at (by FAR) is opp TOV%, where they're #1 in the league. PG13 is a big part of that, averaging 2.3 spg and tied for 2nd in deflections per game. His on/off is phenomenal and his mid-season DRAPM is a league-best +2.95; DRPM is currently +3.17 (11th in league).
And I suppose my other top 3 candidate is probably Giannis Antetokounmpo. He's [arguably? probably?] the anchor of the #1 defense in the league (*NOTE: some of that #1 rating might just be luck [or crowd factor??], as their opponents have shot just 73.8% from the FT-line this season (best opp FT%, -2.7% to league avg).
But to their credit, the Bucks are [remarkably] #1 in the league DREB%, opp eFG%, and *opp FT/FGA (*this too influenced by aforementioned opp FT%).
His defensive on/off isn't quite as impressive as the first two candidates, and this might underscore just how good his defensive supporting cast is; especially that perimeter core. His mid-season DRAPM was a 4th-best +2.10, DRPM currently 15th in the league (at +2.73).
Top HM's?? Maybe....
Danny Green (yeah, that's right)
Draymond Green
maybe Myles Turner
ThunderBolt wrote:I’m going to let some of you in on a little secret I learned on realgm. If you don’t like a thread, not only do you not have to comment but you don’t even have to open it and read it. You’re welcome.
Texas Chuck wrote:PG is probably hurt in his candidacy by Adams. And probably rightfully so considering how Roberson was looking in recent years. Obviously Roberson and George are legit top-level defenders, but there may be some Adams influence seeping in. Just like Bowen got a lot of love that probably really belonged to Duncan because on-ball defense is just easier for people to see with their eyes rather than all the importance of positioning and hedging and deterrence you have to be looking away from the ball to really notice.
Gobert is probably still my choice. I think he also deserves a top ten MVP finish--probably higher than that.
Glad to see Myles Turner get a mention. I don't think he plays enough minutes to deserve the award but Indy is arguably the best defense in the league and he's clearly their highest impact defender.
eminence wrote:trex_8063 wrote:Who's everyone got as the top candidates for DPOY so far?
I've got the same top 3 as you. Probably go 1. Gobert 2. Giannis 3. PG (pretty darn high on OKC's defensive supporting cast). HM's get a bit tricky, pretty sure Turner would be on my list. Danny's been great, but I think I'd put Siakam above him for the Raptors. JJJ for Memphis might be the best defensive rookie I can remember (getting major minutes at least). Kid'd probably make my top 10. Celtics have really been a team effort this year, probably nobody there. After that some good defenders on meh to bad defensives might make my top 10, but not in serious contention for votes. Draymond is quite probably still the best defender in the league, but I don't think he's put in the effort to win the award and missed some time (he'd be top 10 for sure). No lie, my boy Joe might sneak into a top 10 as well. I'd have the race looking something like this:
Gobert
Giannis
PG
Turner
Siakam
Draymond/Green/JJJ/Ingles/??? - with the caveat that I haven't thought too much about guys not on the top ~7 defenses in this context. The Winslow/Richardson duo is pretty dirty defensively.
E-Balla wrote:eminence wrote:JJJ is the best defensive rookie you can remember? Justise Winslow wasn't that long ago.
Dude can't stay on the floor if anyone deserves credit for that defense I'm giving it to Conley, he's a beast.
eminence wrote:E-Balla wrote:eminence wrote:JJJ is the best defensive rookie you can remember? Justise Winslow wasn't that long ago.
Dude can't stay on the floor if anyone deserves credit for that defense I'm giving it to Conley, he's a beast.
Snooze.
ardee wrote:George is absolutely murdering it. He has time to put up a 50 point triple double today.
For the season after this game he'll basically be at 29 ppg on 60% TS on DPoY level defense. Honestly, is that not too far from peak KD? He might find himself in my top 3.
E-Balla wrote:eminence wrote:E-Balla wrote:
Snooze.
Maybe you forgot but Justise was top 10 in DRAPM and in DRAPM*POSS he was 5th under Steven Adams, Kawhi, Draymond, and (surprisingly) Kyle Korver. Should've been all defense.
EDIT: IIRC tracking stats loved him too.
E-Balla wrote:ardee wrote:George is absolutely murdering it. He has time to put up a 50 point triple double today.
For the season after this game he'll basically be at 29 ppg on 60% TS on DPoY level defense. Honestly, is that not too far from peak KD? He might find himself in my top 3.
Not too far? I'd say easily over if he keeps this up. PG is having a top 15ish season ever. Efficient on high volume offensively, lockdown defensively.
Ballerhogger wrote:3 man race
George
Giannis
Harden
Pretty set and clear right now
ardee wrote:Ballerhogger wrote:3 man race
George
Giannis
Harden
Pretty set and clear right now
Can't disagree too much with that. AD was in before the injury and honestly even if he keeps the numbers up I can't put him on the same level as these three guys on a 14th seeded team.
I thought Kawhi would be in the discussion for PotY after his start, really surprised how much he's slid down the ranks.... I think Curry will be in the discussion by the end of the season if the Warriors keep eating teams alive.
eminence wrote:E-Balla wrote:eminence wrote:
Snooze.
Maybe you forgot but Justise was top 10 in DRAPM and in DRAPM*POSS he was 5th under Steven Adams, Kawhi, Draymond, and (surprisingly) Kyle Korver. Should've been all defense.
EDIT: IIRC tracking stats loved him too.
I'd suggest running your own #'s. Were they accurate, suggesting that that's real evidence for Winslow over JJJ defensively is pretty funny stuff. Danny Green for MVP baby, also Draymond is the GOAT!
ardee wrote:E-Balla wrote:ardee wrote:George is absolutely murdering it. He has time to put up a 50 point triple double today.
For the season after this game he'll basically be at 29 ppg on 60% TS on DPoY level defense. Honestly, is that not too far from peak KD? He might find himself in my top 3.
Not too far? I'd say easily over if he keeps this up. PG is having a top 15ish season ever. Efficient on high volume offensively, lockdown defensively.
Uh we might be getting a bit ahead of ourselves here....
viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1404723
I don't like this list too much but using it as a ballpark, are you saying Kuzma is better than Oscar, Wade, Curry, Dirk, Kobe?