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Re: Kobe Bryant Athleticism
Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2020 12:37 am
by 70sFan
fanofthegreats wrote:Third best perimeter athlete of all time behind Jordan and Bron.
Give me Julius Erving over him.
Re: Kobe Bryant Athleticism
Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2020 1:12 am
by MyUniBroDavis
70sFan wrote:fanofthegreats wrote:Third best perimeter athlete of all time behind Jordan and Bron.
Give me Julius Erving over him.
Im blatantly the highest on kobe in the board prolly but yeah third greatest perimeter athlete is a bit much, wade/wilkins/dr J/thompson all were prolly more athletic even if kobe was a bit quicker than a few of them
Re: Kobe Bryant Athleticism
Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2020 1:26 am
by Pelly24
fanofthegreats wrote:Pelly24 wrote:ShotCreator wrote:You say that as if all things are equal in other aspects of athleticism.
Drexler’s top speed, first step, leaping and strength all top Kobe’s.
Drexler was an all-world athlete. The only reason he never peaked higher than Kobe is because his fine motor skills weren’t up to par.
Drexler scored at a high level without a good handle for over a decade. His cut, catch and finish and transition game was just that deadly.
Drexler’s offensive rebounding ability was that of Anthony Davis. Probably higher.
I don’t see Kobe’s athleticism being close to as revered as it’s getting ITT. Nothing really backs up the idea he could top Butler, Drexler or Wade athletically.
He just had better fine motor skills than any of them to complement what athleticism he did have.
I think the motor skills are a part of the athleticism, though, especially if it gives you an edge. That's what gives MJ an athletic edge over people like peak Westbrook.
As far as nothing backing up the idea that he could top those guys, I think Kobe was measured with an official vertical of 38 inches when he was 17 coming out of high school. Butler's was 39 inches after a few years in college. DWade's vertical was 35 inches. Kobe has more poster dunks than both of these guys combined. He also had ridiculous reverse dunks on the baseline. He dunked on Dwight Howard and Tim Duncan and Yao Ming. His dunks easily rival or even exceed Drexler's.
Drexler was fast, but Kobe had a great firs step also. His ability to change directions, as well as his lateral quickness and body control were all superior. Kobe was also an elite defender, and those attributes and his reflexes only helped that.
So idk. Kobe jumped as high or higher than Jimmy Butler, and definitely higher than DWade, and he had way more impressive posters/dunks than either of them. Kobe wasn't as strong as Butler but he was way more agile and definitely had a quicker first step.
Kobe's bounce and quickness are without a doubt elite. His refined athleticism—changing directions, balance, coordination, reflexes—were GOAT levels, and that's what helped give him such an edge.
I don’t see how anyone can look at Jimmy Butler and conclude he’s more impressive athletically than Kobe Bryant.
I can see an argument for Clyde, he’s definitely more impressive in an open court setting. But for all useful basketball functions, it’s clearly Kobe.
Yeah I could understand the Drexler one. But Jimmy Butler is just...I don't get that. He's an elite athlete but he's not more explosive and then the agility...as i said, no one at 6'5" is really more agile than Kobe was, except MJ.
Re: Kobe Bryant Athleticism
Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2020 6:53 am
by feyki
Drexler was one of the top 5-6 athletes in his days(late 80's). Larry Nance,Jordan,Dominique and any other? I would say Drexler after them. Kobe was also in the elite group, too. But comparing him to T-Mac and Vince is unfair, the two were comparable athletes to Young Jordan.
Re: Kobe Bryant Athleticism
Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2020 3:50 pm
by Jiminy Glick
ShotCreator wrote:Jiminy Glick wrote:Eh when you look at all the components of athleticism I'd put his athletic prime over Drexler and Wade. Kobe was more acrobatic than them.
You say that as if all things are equal in other aspects of athleticism.
Drexler’s top speed, first step, leaping and strength all top Kobe’s.
Drexler was an all-world athlete. The only reason he never peaked higher than Kobe is because his fine motor skills weren’t up to par.
Drexler scored at a high level without a good handle for over a decade. His cut, catch and finish and transition game was just that deadly.
Drexler’s offensive rebounding ability was that of Anthony Davis. Probably higher.
I don’t see Kobe’s athleticism being close to as revered as it’s getting ITT. Nothing really backs up the idea he could top Butler, Drexler or Wade athletically.
He just had better fine motor skills than any of them to complement what athleticism he did have.
I think Drexler was the better player and I would rather have him on my team and perhaps you are right that he is the better athlete. I need to think about it a little more. Kobe was a damn good athlete though in his athletic prime.
Re: Kobe Bryant Athleticism
Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2020 3:51 pm
by nolang1
For Kobe (and also Jordan, just watch The Last Dance), once LeBron rounded out his game as a shooter and post player and it became evident he was going to eclipse them by many statistical measures, there was a concerted effort to downplay their athleticism in order to lean hard on the idea of them as players whose teams won largely because they were alpha male competitors who had the clutch gene (and all those other cliches). But yeah, Kobe had prototype size for the SG position and was as physically gifted as anyone besides Jordan.
Re: Kobe Bryant Athleticism
Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2020 8:44 pm
by Heej
Sign5 wrote:He was an elite athlete just under 'freak athlete' status. Even Wade who I felt was slightly more athletic falls just short of being in that category.
Lebron, MJ, Westbrook, Wilt, Zion, Shaq, Dominique, Giannis are all freak athletes that were more athletic than Kobe. Again though he was still a superb athlete especially in his fro days.
This. I refer to that tier as the 'God Tier' athletes. There's maybe 2 in a generation. Kobe is in the tier just below that. Meaning he's not the most athletic of any generation but in any given generation he's probably a top 5 athlete fairly easily. Like if Peak Kobe was in the league right now he's probably only 3rd after Zion and Giannis. A couple years ago he'd have been like 3rd after Russ and Lebron.
Re: Kobe Bryant Athleticism
Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2020 10:53 pm
by SOdisciple
I think Kobe Bryant is generally overrated by casual fans who put his name right there next to guys like Jordan and LeBron, but with that said I think he is one of the most underrated athletes to ever play the game. Watch this reel of his 2003 season and tell me this guy wasn't an athletic freak:
Re: Kobe Bryant Athleticism
Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2020 4:22 am
by LakerLegend
Re: Kobe Bryant Athleticism
Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2020 4:23 am
by LakerLegend
When Kobe was young and healthy, before his knee problems(pre 08, even moreseo pre 06) you never heard people say he was anything less than an athletic peer of guys like McGrady and Carter.
Kobe was certainly quicker than both of them.
Carter I feel for all the talk of his leaping prowess seemed to also need more time to "gather" on his hops than either Jordan or Kobe, and his first step was clearly behind both.
Re: Kobe Bryant Athleticism
Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2020 4:29 am
by LakerLegend
Let's also not forget that a lot of Carter's dunks look great because A. Big hands make it easier to do things but B. Just an insanely long wingspan.
I don't think he consistently jumps higher than most of the other elite leapers if you look at his head. His long arms just give an illusion.
Re: Kobe Bryant Athleticism
Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2020 6:43 am
by LakerLegend
Re: Kobe Bryant Athleticism
Posted: Sun Jan 10, 2021 3:45 am
by LakerLegend
Re: Kobe Bryant Athleticism
Posted: Sun Jan 10, 2021 5:25 pm
by TurinTurambar
I think people are taking single athletic attributes, mostly leaping ability/pure vertical, and making some strange proclamations from there. Guys like Jason Richardson, Gerald Green, Latrell Sprewell, Zach Lavine, and Grant Hill really don't stack up against the total athletic package that Kobe offered. Throw Drexler on that list too, because yes, fine motor skills are definitely athletic attributes.
Whenever Phil was asked to compare Kobe to MJ athletically, the things he would keep going back to were Jordan's hand size and strength, attributes which certainly give Jordan an edge where nearly everything else was equal.
Kobe himself said on more than one occasion that he thought of Tracy McGrady as a 6'8" version of himself.
If we take these assessments at face value, we can start to carve out something of a hierarchy: LeBron, Jordan, Kobe, Tracy.
David Thompson, Dominique, Dr. J, Dwyane, and Vince are the guys that probably round out the list of "Most Elite Perimeter Athletes in NBA History." Although the order is obviously much more difficult to distinguish.
Re: Kobe Bryant Athleticism
Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2021 12:55 am
by LakerLegend
Re: Kobe Bryant Athleticism
Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:41 pm
by McBubbles
He's a tier 2 athlete.
MJ, Wilt, Shaq, Lebron, Howard, Zion, are tier 1, GOAT Level.
Kobe, AD, Giannis, DRob, Hakeem, Iverson, Rose, Westbrook, Blake, Kemp, Wall, Wade, Magic, etc, are tier 2, ATG Level.
For whatever reason though Young Kobe played like Old Jordan from the jump. Didn't take advantage of his athleticism as much as he should have earlier in his career imo.
Edit - Hm, looking back at this I feel like there should be a 1.5 tier that, Drob, Giannis and AD are on.
Re: Kobe Bryant Athleticism
Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:51 pm
by McBubbles
nolang1 wrote:For Kobe (and also Jordan, just watch The Last Dance), once LeBron rounded out his game as a shooter and post player and it became evident he was going to eclipse them by many statistical measures, there was a concerted effort to downplay their athleticism in order to lean hard on the idea of them as players whose teams won largely because they were alpha male competitors who had the clutch gene (and all those other cliches). But yeah, Kobe had prototype size for the SG position and was as physically gifted as anyone besides Jordan.
This is true. A lot of Kobe stans act like Kobe had cerebral palsy or something the way they talk about him, like he wasn't one of the most athletic shooting guards of all time that was gifted with height, speed, verticality, endurance and kinaesthetic genius. Like the ONLY reason he was successful is because he worked hard and that black mamba-killer mentality-venom-assassin-instinct bs.
The amount of people that imply Kobe would have been the GOAT if he had Jordan's hands, like that was the meaningful distinction between them, is redonkulous.
Re: Kobe Bryant Athleticism
Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:18 pm
by TurinTurambar
I'm not sure I see the point in bumping a thread just to make back-to-back posts with contradictory statements.
Re: Kobe Bryant Athleticism
Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 8:20 pm
by McBubbles
TurinTurambar wrote:I'm not sure I see the point in bumping a thread just to make back-to-back posts with contradictory statements.
Was this directed at me? If so, where's the contradiction?
Re: Kobe Bryant Athleticism
Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 8:34 pm
by TurinTurambar
McBubbles wrote:TurinTurambar wrote:I'm not sure I see the point in bumping a thread just to make back-to-back posts with contradictory statements.
Was this directed at me? If so, where's the contradiction?
In your first post you called Kobe a "Tier 2 athlete," and then in the very next post you describe him as "one of the most athletic shooting guards of all time gifted with height, speed, verticality, endurance and kinaesthetic genius." In an attempt to denounce Kobe fan's efforts to frame him as being anything but one of the best pure athletes in the history of the game (which nobody in this thread has done to this point, so I'm not even sure what this was really for in the first place).