Where do you rank Lebron right now in the GOAT list?

[Ambrose]

You’re not allowed to have a post that doesn’t constantly praise lebron around here.

Yeah, they label you as a troll immediately, They can't grasp that someone doesn't see LeBron the same way they do. I never denied his greatness, but it's not all about him, there have been other great players too.

Liar...You downplay everything he has done,no matter what

This

[bledredwine]

Yeah, they label you as a troll immediately, They can't grasp that someone doesn't see LeBron the same way they do. I never denied his greatness, but it's not all about him, there have been other great players too.

Liar...You downplay everything he has done,no matter what

This

We need less of this.

You can also say that fans of Lebron downplay his failures and blemishes as well.

So what? There are two sides and Hal/Gooner provide one of those sides, even though it’s a side you don’t like.

If you disagree with something, why not reply with the basketball reasons why instead of accusations?

This forum has gotten better over the last months. Let’s continue that together, even though we have differing opinions. It’s alright to express total disagreement, but back it up if you’re in disagreement, yes?

Otherwise it’s “yes!” ... “no!”.... “yes!” .. “no!”

Those that are in favor of lebron being top two have their reasons - incredible stats, making the finals many years in a row, floor raising abilities, great defense for a period of time, some amazing performances like toronto, playing at an elite level for an absurd period of time, and so on.

Those that are not in support of Lebron have a plethora of equally good reasons - weak East, vulnerable, midrange game, formed super teams and still has 3, nearly two, lower win totals and overall poorer team defenses, has a weaker finals record with many slaughters, stats are not as impressive when coorelated with other players of era and that he’s point-scorer, chokes/quits and opposing matchups have sometimes lit him up, hasn’t been a consistently good defender and so on.

Both sides are ok. You can compile these lists for any player, and some players will have shorter ends to either of these or even both of these. But I’m Lebron’s specific case, he has a lot on both sides, which makes him possibly even more polarizing than Kobe in his prime.

[Homer38]

Liar...You downplay everything he has done,no matter what

This

We need less of this.

You can also say that fans of Lebron downplay his failures and blemishes as well.

So what? There are two sides and Hal/Gooner provide one of those sides, like it or not.

If you disagree with something, why not reply with the basketball reasons why instead of accusations?

This forum has gotten better over the last months. Let’s continue that together, even though we have differing opinions. It’s alright to express total disagreement, but back it up!

because I am wasting my time when I do that since he ignores that or he says anything like this morning when he said that J.R Smith and Kevin Love were good 2 way players in 2018.

[Ambrose]

This

We need less of this.

You can also say that fans of Lebron downplay his failures and blemishes as well.

So what? There are two sides and Hal/Gooner provide one of those sides, like it or not.

If you disagree with something, why not reply with the basketball reasons why instead of accusations?

This forum has gotten better over the last months. Let’s continue that together, even though we have differing opinions. It’s alright to express total disagreement, but back it up!

because I am wasting my time when I do that since he ignores that or he says anything like this morning when he said that J.R Smith and Kevin Love were good 2 way players in 2018.

bledredwine is the same as Gooner. Narrative and rings are all that matter. Ignore them both. I do.

[Amares]

I think people agree here that LeBron is GOAT or 2nd at worst. Except for some trolls it's common knowledge now. Maybe would be better to guess who will be the next GOAT? It seems there is 1-2 players with potential, but probably they won't surpass LeBron. We should see next super player in few years with potential for this.

Have you seen the poll amongst the public or videos from player testimony?

Lebron is ranked 3 or 4 in all of those, with Jordan and Kareem being top 2, Jordan ranked 1 by an overwhelming majority.

I’m not saying this just because I’m a jordan fan. I’m saying it because what you stated is not true.

I've stated according to poll vote results, which if I remember had 57% of people voting him in top 2. I don't follow public polls, when 90% people votes are for popularity and flash. For the bigger rankings published by some websites even few years ago LeBron was top 1-3 in many.

And considering the way his career has played out, it’s perfectly valid to debate him anywhere between that 4 to 9 spot as well. Even though I’m not the biggest fan, I can see why some choose Duncan over Lebron for what he provides defensively and Lebrons teams haven’t been particularly good defensively.

For the same reason you can rank Duncan above Jordan.

Lebron is some people’s GOAT, and some people’s 10th best. That’s fine.

Jordan is also some peoples 10th best. But I think in both cases we call it hate, not fine.

[NbaAllDay]

I absolutely love that someone can admit to Jordan giving up on a game, then jusitying it because he was "called out" for shooting too much 4 years into his career.

Then in the very next sentence, blames Lebron for 'quitting' in the celtics series (with no real evidence) as if Lebron hadn't been given a far better reason to do so with a completely inept front office all the way through for 7 years. But boo hoo Jordan is allowed to quit because the coach hurt his feelings.

How you can actually justify Jordan's actions and try and hold Lebrons against him is just so far beyond being biased it's an no wonder this person is never taken seriously.

[Dutchball97]

Liar...You downplay everything he has done,no matter what

This

We need less of this.

You can also say that fans of Lebron downplay his failures and blemishes as well.

So what? There are two sides and Hal/Gooner provide one of those sides, even though it’s a side you don’t like.

If you disagree with something, why not reply with the basketball reasons why instead of accusations?

This forum has gotten better over the last months. Let’s continue that together, even though we have differing opinions. It’s alright to express total disagreement, but back it up if you’re in disagreement, yes?

Otherwise it’s “yes!” ... “no!”.... “yes!” .. “no!”

Those that are in favor of lebron being top two have their reasons - incredible stats, making the finals many years in a row, floor raising abilities, great defense for a period of time, some amazing performances like toronto, playing at an elite level for an absurd period of time, and so on.

Those that are not in support of Lebron have a plethora of equally good reasons - weak East, vulnerable, midrange game, formed super teams and still has 3, nearly two, lower win totals and overall poorer team defenses, has a weaker finals record with many slaughters, stats are not as impressive when coorelated with other players of era and that he’s point-scorer, chokes/quits and opposing matchups have sometimes lit him up, hasn’t been a consistently good defender and so on.

Both sides are ok. You can compile these lists for any player, and some players will have shorter ends to either of these or even both of these. But I’m Lebron’s specific case, he has a lot on both sides, which makes him possibly even more polarizing than Kobe in his prime.

Mate, your signature even has LeBron bashing and MJ praising and then you go and try to argue how LeBron isn't comparable to MJ. Like you're not even trying to hide it, you're simply not objective on this one.

[Gooner]

This

We need less of this.

You can also say that fans of Lebron downplay his failures and blemishes as well.

So what? There are two sides and Hal/Gooner provide one of those sides, even though it’s a side you don’t like.

If you disagree with something, why not reply with the basketball reasons why instead of accusations?

This forum has gotten better over the last months. Let’s continue that together, even though we have differing opinions. It’s alright to express total disagreement, but back it up if you’re in disagreement, yes?

Otherwise it’s “yes!” ... “no!”.... “yes!” .. “no!”

Those that are in favor of lebron being top two have their reasons - incredible stats, making the finals many years in a row, floor raising abilities, great defense for a period of time, some amazing performances like toronto, playing at an elite level for an absurd period of time, and so on.

Those that are not in support of Lebron have a plethora of equally good reasons - weak East, vulnerable, midrange game, formed super teams and still has 3, nearly two, lower win totals and overall poorer team defenses, has a weaker finals record with many slaughters, stats are not as impressive when coorelated with other players of era and that he’s point-scorer, chokes/quits and opposing matchups have sometimes lit him up, hasn’t been a consistently good defender and so on.

Both sides are ok. You can compile these lists for any player, and some players will have shorter ends to either of these or even both of these. But I’m Lebron’s specific case, he has a lot on both sides, which makes him possibly even more polarizing than Kobe in his prime.

Mate, your signature even has LeBron bashing and MJ praising and then you go and try to argue how LeBron isn't comparable to MJ. Like you're not even trying to hide it, you're simply not objective on this one.

And who is objective? LeBron fans like yourself? He is entitled to his opinion like everybody else.

[Dutchball97]

We need less of this.

You can also say that fans of Lebron downplay his failures and blemishes as well.

So what? There are two sides and Hal/Gooner provide one of those sides, even though it’s a side you don’t like.

If you disagree with something, why not reply with the basketball reasons why instead of accusations?

This forum has gotten better over the last months. Let’s continue that together, even though we have differing opinions. It’s alright to express total disagreement, but back it up if you’re in disagreement, yes?

Otherwise it’s “yes!” ... “no!”.... “yes!” .. “no!”

Those that are in favor of lebron being top two have their reasons - incredible stats, making the finals many years in a row, floor raising abilities, great defense for a period of time, some amazing performances like toronto, playing at an elite level for an absurd period of time, and so on.

Those that are not in support of Lebron have a plethora of equally good reasons - weak East, vulnerable, midrange game, formed super teams and still has 3, nearly two, lower win totals and overall poorer team defenses, has a weaker finals record with many slaughters, stats are not as impressive when coorelated with other players of era and that he’s point-scorer, chokes/quits and opposing matchups have sometimes lit him up, hasn’t been a consistently good defender and so on.

Both sides are ok. You can compile these lists for any player, and some players will have shorter ends to either of these or even both of these. But I’m Lebron’s specific case, he has a lot on both sides, which makes him possibly even more polarizing than Kobe in his prime.

Mate, your signature even has LeBron bashing and MJ praising and then you go and try to argue how LeBron isn't comparable to MJ. Like you're not even trying to hide it, you're simply not objective on this one.

And who is objective? LeBron fans like yourself? He is entitled to his opinion like everybody else.

Am not even a LeBron fan. I hated him in his Miami days and never really cared about him while he was in Cleveland either but when looking at career accomplishments I see him as the #2 behind MJ.

Your entire argument here is that everyone who ranks LeBron highly only does so because they are big fans of his. Weak. You're practically claiming that you're allowed to spout bull because there are other people that do so as well. Hold yourself to a higher standard.

[mademan]

How is the person who legit argues Jordan was a better defender than Tim freakin Duncan gonna tell others to be objective?

[Gooner]

Mate, your signature even has LeBron bashing and MJ praising and then you go and try to argue how LeBron isn't comparable to MJ. Like you're not even trying to hide it, you're simply not objective on this one.

And who is objective? LeBron fans like yourself? He is entitled to his opinion like everybody else.

Am not even a LeBron fan. I hated him in his Miami days and never really cared about him while he was in Cleveland either but when looking at career accomplishments I see him as the #2 behind MJ.

Your entire argument here is that everyone who ranks LeBron highly only does so because they are big fans of his. Weak. You're practically claiming that you're allowed to spout bull because there are other people that do so as well. Hold yourself to a higher standard.

I've noticed that a lot of LeBron fans claim that they are not really his fans, but they get very emotional when you say anythign against him, attacking the messanger, not the message.

[nfmos]

I oscillate between 2 and 5. Most days it settles around 3.

He's the greatest individual talent I've ever seen. And had a great work ethic and got a lot out of it. When he became more confident later in his career he seemed unstoppable at times. From a raw talent perspective, 2009 was maybe the most dominant indidvudal season I've ever seen from a face up perimeter player. His playoffs were incredible, if that were his consistent prime and he won titles during that time I might have his peak as #1.

I think I just have a problem with his intangibles. Early in his career I thought he had a pretty unfortunate set of circumstances that made it difficult for him to win....but this applied to so many great players in their career. He decided to take matters into his own hands and control his own destiny and shape his own team's from then on. But the way his teams were designed felt less less than the sum of their parts. At the end of the day, it really, really seemed like he should have won more than he did and I believe a good amount of that it his own fault. Nobody else in history gets a pass, especially when nobody else has had the amount of power he's had over his own career since 2010, so I don't see why LeBron should especially when he can basically form his own teams, supercede GMs, fire coaches, etc. If other players had the same ability to conspire and play with their elite NBA buddies in their prime, a lot of hall of fame careers would look different. I'm not willing to overlook this, it's a huge deal.

I also don't really like his attitude at times. He's flat out quit on numerous occasions at crucial moments. The most recent example is the 2018 finals. No one expected the cavs to win that series but in game 1 theyre tied with the dubs going into overtime. Sure, JR made a mistake..... But the f**king game was tied!! He acted like they already lost! There are SOOO many times in competition where a call doesn't go your way or something seemingly unlucky happens, maybe in your control or not, but if you're the leader of a team you have to play through those moments. You play your hardest until the end and see where the chips fall. What it the warriors had a series of unfortunate series shifting injuries like they did in 2016? What if KD hurts sprains his ankle, or curry or someone goes out for a few games. This literally happened in 2019 and the raptors won the title. But with Lebron's attitude they'd never have a shot because he already quit. He sulked in such a horrible way, distancing himself from his team and flat out gave up when the game was TIED. And then the rest of the series, he pretty much spent the press conferences stroking the greatness of the other team, communicating with his body language that he had no faith in his team. And then game 4, not trying at all and then wrapping his hand in that cast, ready for an excuse to give the media? It wouldn't be as big if a deal, except he's done this many times throughout his career. Just folded when he thought he was going to lose instead of giving it his all. Its consistent behavior with him, he acts like a spoiled child at times and it irritates me beyond belief because I like his personality otherwise.

For these reasons, in my mind he definitely is not #1 now and through his own actions prevented himself from ever surpassing guys like MJ, despite the fact that he's the right kind of talent to be the undisputed greatest.

I suspect that most people will not ever consider him the greatest either. MJ probably won't be surpassed culturally but a player may surpass his impact on the court. It could have been LeBron but I believe it will probably be someone else.

I agree with this so much and I can't see why the people that complain about the talent he had around him don't acknowledge your first point about how much control he had over his situation. Look at how many all star players he arranged to play with. But like you said, they should have won more than they did with the lineups he arranged. Jordan had one perennial all star, with Pippen, and people overlook how much a hand Jordan had in creating who Pippen became, isnt it obvious how much Pip played like Jordan? But how many players did Lebron develop like that? I think Jordan was more dedicated to putting in the work in practice and the offseason to develop others, especially with their mental game, and invest his energy in that, while Lebron put more effort in recruiting finished talent.

I also agree with what you said about their attitude. Lebron obviously has always been extremely competitive but I just think Jordan was literally obsessed with winning just more than he was. He probably made him more of a jerk and less people got a long with him off the court, but winning was literally everything with him, in everything.

[Homer38]

And who is objective? LeBron fans like yourself? He is entitled to his opinion like everybody else.

Am not even a LeBron fan. I hated him in his Miami days and never really cared about him while he was in Cleveland either but when looking at career accomplishments I see him as the #2 behind MJ.

Your entire argument here is that everyone who ranks LeBron highly only does so because they are big fans of his. Weak. You're practically claiming that you're allowed to spout bull because there are other people that do so as well. Hold yourself to a higher standard.

I've noticed that a lot of LeBron fans claim that they are not really his fans, but they get very emotional when you say anythign against him, attacking the messanger, not the message.

So every person who thinks LBJ is an all-time great (top 5) is a LeBron fan?

The reason that some were very emotional is because the comments of some are so dumb.

[Homer38]

I oscillate between 2 and 5. Most days it settles around 3.

He's the greatest individual talent I've ever seen. And had a great work ethic and got a lot out of it. When he became more confident later in his career he seemed unstoppable at times. From a raw talent perspective, 2009 was maybe the most dominant indidvudal season I've ever seen from a face up perimeter player. His playoffs were incredible, if that were his consistent prime and he won titles during that time I might have his peak as #1.

I think I just have a problem with his intangibles. Early in his career I thought he had a pretty unfortunate set of circumstances that made it difficult for him to win....but this applied to so many great players in their career. He decided to take matters into his own hands and control his own destiny and shape his own team's from then on. But the way his teams were designed felt less less than the sum of their parts. At the end of the day, it really, really seemed like he should have won more than he did and I believe a good amount of that it his own fault. Nobody else in history gets a pass, especially when nobody else has had the amount of power he's had over his own career since 2010, so I don't see why LeBron should especially when he can basically form his own teams, supercede GMs, fire coaches, etc. If other players had the same ability to conspire and play with their elite NBA buddies in their prime, a lot of hall of fame careers would look different. I'm not willing to overlook this, it's a huge deal.

I also don't really like his attitude at times. He's flat out quit on numerous occasions at crucial moments. The most recent example is the 2018 finals. No one expected the cavs to win that series but in game 1 theyre tied with the dubs going into overtime. Sure, JR made a mistake..... But the f**king game was tied!! He acted like they already lost! There are SOOO many times in competition where a call doesn't go your way or something seemingly unlucky happens, maybe in your control or not, but if you're the leader of a team you have to play through those moments. You play your hardest until the end and see where the chips fall. What it the warriors had a series of unfortunate series shifting injuries like they did in 2016? What if KD hurts sprains his ankle, or curry or someone goes out for a few games. This literally happened in 2019 and the raptors won the title. But with Lebron's attitude they'd never have a shot because he already quit. He sulked in such a horrible way, distancing himself from his team and flat out gave up when the game was TIED. And then the rest of the series, he pretty much spent the press conferences stroking the greatness of the other team, communicating with his body language that he had no faith in his team. And then game 4, not trying at all and then wrapping his hand in that cast, ready for an excuse to give the media? It wouldn't be as big if a deal, except he's done this many times throughout his career. Just folded when he thought he was going to lose instead of giving it his all. Its consistent behavior with him, he acts like a spoiled child at times and it irritates me beyond belief because I like his personality otherwise.

For these reasons, in my mind he definitely is not #1 now and through his own actions prevented himself from ever surpassing guys like MJ, despite the fact that he's the right kind of talent to be the undisputed greatest.

I suspect that most people will not ever consider him the greatest either. MJ probably won't be surpassed culturally but a player may surpass his impact on the court. It could have been LeBron but I believe it will probably be someone else.

I agree with this so much and I can't see why the people that complain about the talent he had around him don't acknowledge your first point about how much control he had over his situation. Look at how many all star players he arranged to play with. But like you said, they should have won more than they did with the lineups he arranged. Jordan had one perennial all star, with Pippen, and people overlook how much a hand Jordan had in creating who Pippen became, isnt it obvious how much Pip played like Jordan? But how many players did Lebron develop like that? I think Jordan was more dedicated to putting in the work in practice and the offseason to develop others, especially with their mental game, and invest his energy in that, while Lebron put more effort in recruiting finished talent.

I also agree with what you said about their attitude. Lebron obviously has always been extremely competitive but I just think Jordan was literally obsessed with winning just more than he was. He probably made him more of a jerk and less people got a long with him off the court, but winning was literally everything with him, in everything.

LeBron and the others need to be judged by their play...Since 2012, how many times has the heat or the cavs lost a series because LBJ had not played in its high standards?

No problem those who think that Jordan, KAJ, Russell are higher than LBJ but outside the top 10 for no good reason, I have a problem.

[bledredwine]

This

We need less of this.

You can also say that fans of Lebron downplay his failures and blemishes as well.

So what? There are two sides and Hal/Gooner provide one of those sides, even though it’s a side you don’t like.

If you disagree with something, why not reply with the basketball reasons why instead of accusations?

This forum has gotten better over the last months. Let’s continue that together, even though we have differing opinions. It’s alright to express total disagreement, but back it up if you’re in disagreement, yes?

Otherwise it’s “yes!” ... “no!”.... “yes!” .. “no!”

Those that are in favor of lebron being top two have their reasons - incredible stats, making the finals many years in a row, floor raising abilities, great defense for a period of time, some amazing performances like toronto, playing at an elite level for an absurd period of time, and so on.

Those that are not in support of Lebron have a plethora of equally good reasons - weak East, vulnerable, midrange game, formed super teams and still has 3, nearly two, lower win totals and overall poorer team defenses, has a weaker finals record with many slaughters, stats are not as impressive when coorelated with other players of era and that he’s point-scorer, chokes/quits and opposing matchups have sometimes lit him up, hasn’t been a consistently good defender and so on.

Both sides are ok. You can compile these lists for any player, and some players will have shorter ends to either of these or even both of these. But I’m Lebron’s specific case, he has a lot on both sides, which makes him possibly even more polarizing than Kobe in his prime.

Mate, your signature even has LeBron bashing and MJ praising and then you go and try to argue how LeBron isn't comparable to MJ. Like you're not even trying to hide it, you're simply not objective on this one.

Even the biggest fan (say, you) knows that Lebron has far more blemishes and vulnerabilities than Jordan did, regardless of what excuses can be made.

Yes, I think that Jordan is much better, to be honest with you. That’s because Jordan has a ton of pros and very few cons in comparison to Lebron and there are many myths floating around, including Lebron’s clutch ability in particular.

But you don’t see me quoting and annoying posters who are calling lebron their number one, do you? That’s what I’m talking about. If there is good reason, then it’s a valid opinion to have, period. If you put Jordan at 11? You better back that up because it’s a steep hill to climb. Still, you don’t see me even quoting those few posters because that’s what they want to think, and that’s fine by me. I only quote when there are false assertions, and fun discussion, which is what this forum exists for (aside from community).

And providing clutch stats? That’s not hating. You just hate what you read. That’s providing facts. When you take large samples, Lebron is very poor in the clutch. I will be more than happy to post the Larger pool of evidence for you.

Once again, in common polls, Jordan had by far the most first place votes, with 76% of the vote, Kareem coming second and Lebron somewhere near 9 percent.

You tell me who’s biased here. I’m providing stats in each of my posts while you’re providing mere drama.

If you took all of your posts in this thread and included the basketball facts, it could be condensed to one post. But instead, your jumping on posters for not fawning over lebron. Think about that.

You’re right. I don’t think Lebron is close to Jordan, and I have the stats and scenarios to back it up. So what? You don’t see me jumping on posters calling lebron their number one.

That’s the point.

[Dutchball97]

We need less of this.

You can also say that fans of Lebron downplay his failures and blemishes as well.

So what? There are two sides and Hal/Gooner provide one of those sides, even though it’s a side you don’t like.

If you disagree with something, why not reply with the basketball reasons why instead of accusations?

This forum has gotten better over the last months. Let’s continue that together, even though we have differing opinions. It’s alright to express total disagreement, but back it up if you’re in disagreement, yes?

Otherwise it’s “yes!” ... “no!”.... “yes!” .. “no!”

Those that are in favor of lebron being top two have their reasons - incredible stats, making the finals many years in a row, floor raising abilities, great defense for a period of time, some amazing performances like toronto, playing at an elite level for an absurd period of time, and so on.

Those that are not in support of Lebron have a plethora of equally good reasons - weak East, vulnerable, midrange game, formed super teams and still has 3, nearly two, lower win totals and overall poorer team defenses, has a weaker finals record with many slaughters, stats are not as impressive when coorelated with other players of era and that he’s point-scorer, chokes/quits and opposing matchups have sometimes lit him up, hasn’t been a consistently good defender and so on.

Both sides are ok. You can compile these lists for any player, and some players will have shorter ends to either of these or even both of these. But I’m Lebron’s specific case, he has a lot on both sides, which makes him possibly even more polarizing than Kobe in his prime.

Mate, your signature even has LeBron bashing and MJ praising and then you go and try to argue how LeBron isn't comparable to MJ. Like you're not even trying to hide it, you're simply not objective on this one.

That’s because Jordan has a ton of pros and very cons in comparison to Lebron and there are many myths floating around, including Lebron’s clutch ability in particular.

That’s not hating. That’s providing facts. When you take large samples, Lebron is very poor in the clutch. I will be more than happy to post the evidence for you.

Once again, in common polls, Jordan had by far the most first place votes, with 76% of the vote, Kareem coming second and Lebron somewhere near 9 percent.

You tell me who’s biased here. I’m providing stats in each of my posts while you’re providing mere drama.

If you took all of your posts in this thread and included the basketball facts, it could be condensed to one post. But instead, your jumping on posters for not fawning over lebron. Think about that.

You go out of your way in your signature to point out how you think LeBron James and James Harden are overrated. Think about that for a second. The message you want people to walk away from after reading your signature is that LeBron James isn't an All-Time great and definitely worse than your precious Jordan. Then you say "It's just facts bro". There are plenty of facts about a lot of players but you choose this particular stat for no reason other than to "just state a fact"?

And yeah of course I'm answering about the person and not the post when someone who thinks every person is a LeBron fan trying to discredit your childhood hero when they don't agree with your fawning over MJ and needless bashing of other players to make MJ look better.

If you can't see how clearly you're broadcasting your agenda of MJ >>> LeBron, then I don't know what else to say.

[Gooner]

Mate, your signature even has LeBron bashing and MJ praising and then you go and try to argue how LeBron isn't comparable to MJ. Like you're not even trying to hide it, you're simply not objective on this one.

That’s because Jordan has a ton of pros and very cons in comparison to Lebron and there are many myths floating around, including Lebron’s clutch ability in particular.

That’s not hating. That’s providing facts. When you take large samples, Lebron is very poor in the clutch. I will be more than happy to post the evidence for you.

Once again, in common polls, Jordan had by far the most first place votes, with 76% of the vote, Kareem coming second and Lebron somewhere near 9 percent.

You tell me who’s biased here. I’m providing stats in each of my posts while you’re providing mere drama.

If you took all of your posts in this thread and included the basketball facts, it could be condensed to one post. But instead, your jumping on posters for not fawning over lebron. Think about that.

You go out of your way in your signature to point out how you think LeBron James and James Harden are overrated. Think about that for a second. The message you want people to walk away from after reading your signature is that LeBron James isn't an All-Time great and definitely worse than your precious Jordan. Then you say "It's just facts bro". There are plenty of facts about a lot of players but you choose this particular stat for no reason other than to "just state a fact"?

And yeah of course I'm answering about the person and not the post when someone who thinks every person is a LeBron fan trying to discredit your childhood hero when they don't agree with your fawning over MJ and needless bashing of other players to make MJ look better.

If you can't see how clearly you're broadcasting your agenda of MJ >>> LeBron, then I don't know what else to say.

He has the right to broadcast that agenda, and there are facts to back it up.

[Clyde Frazier]

This discussion has devolved into spatting about whether or not people can have objective opinions... let's get back on the actual topic please.

[bledredwine]

That’s because Jordan has a ton of pros and very cons in comparison to Lebron and there are many myths floating around, including Lebron’s clutch ability in particular.

That’s not hating. That’s providing facts. When you take large samples, Lebron is very poor in the clutch. I will be more than happy to post the evidence for you.

Once again, in common polls, Jordan had by far the most first place votes, with 76% of the vote, Kareem coming second and Lebron somewhere near 9 percent.

You tell me who’s biased here. I’m providing stats in each of my posts while you’re providing mere drama.

If you took all of your posts in this thread and included the basketball facts, it could be condensed to one post. But instead, your jumping on posters for not fawning over lebron. Think about that.

You go out of your way in your signature to point out how you think LeBron James and James Harden are overrated. Think about that for a second. The message you want people to walk away from after reading your signature is that LeBron James isn't an All-Time great and definitely worse than your precious Jordan. Then you say "It's just facts bro". There are plenty of facts about a lot of players but you choose this particular stat for no reason other than to "just state a fact"?

And yeah of course I'm answering about the person and not the post when someone who thinks every person is a LeBron fan trying to discredit your childhood hero when they don't agree with your fawning over MJ and needless bashing of other players to make MJ look better.

If you can't see how clearly you're broadcasting your agenda of MJ >>> LeBron, then I don't know what else to say.

Yep! I have reasons that Lebron’s clutch abilities and James Harden are both overrated, in my opinion. That’s not hating, it’s providing opinion with evidence. I don’t think Lebron James is nearly as good as you think he is. So what?

That’s my opinion.

What I don’t do is quote others and bash them for their all time rankings like you do. I may express surprise if a thread is giving a player the shaft, but I always back it with reasons. I won’t call people “haters” or any of that.

What’s so hard to understand here? That’s what a monarchy does. Calling people haters gets nothing done, ten out of ten times. And I’m not perfect at all- I used to do the same thing. It’s just something to be mindful of.

[iggymcfrack]

I ask who was the good two way players of the Cavs were in 2018 and he said players like J.R Smith and Kevin Love!

He's just trolling or he knows nothing in the NBA at this point!

Sometimes there are cases where I disagree but I at least understand the argument and thought process behind it like with people who have Tim Duncan in their top 3. Saying LeBron isn't a top 10 player because there have been other great players without actually listing, let alone giving an argument for those players over LeBron, just isn't going to work.

I would put Jordan, Bird, Magic, Kobe, Olajuwon, Duncan, Shaq, Wilt, Russell, Kareem ahead of him, not in particual order.

Troll. Troll troll troll. Kobe and LeBron were in the league at the exact same time. Kobe was better LeBron’s rookie year. Then they were very close for four years. Then the next 8 years LeBron was massively better. LeBron was the best player in the league for 8/10 years. Kobe was never the best player in the league once. LeBron was a better scorer, a much better rebounder, a MUCH MUCH better defender, and a MUCH MUCH MUCH better passer. LeBron led poor supporting casts to the Finals on multiple occasions. When Kobe had poor talent, he couldn’t get out of the first round. The only argument Kobe has is rings, but LeBron has Wilt and Hakeem beat on rings and you have them ahead so you’re obviously not using them as a be-all end-all. You’re just willfully ignoring facts either to get a reaction or because of your own personal dislike of a player.