2021-22 RealGM All-Season Awards - Discussion Thread

[Doctor MJ]

Honestly if I voted (not sure if I can or will) I think Jokic would be my POY even if he was swept out of first round unless Curry, Giannis, or Joel have an insane postseason. Maaaaaaaaaybe Tatum if he goes absolutely nuclear.

Glad for the Tatum mention. I think he should absolutely be on people's radars.

Incidentally, the 5 players you named are my regular season Top 5, and thus chances are very good one of them will be my POY (I'm not sure if I've ever seen a player go from out of my Top 5 to #1 before), though I certainly won't refuse to consider anyone else.

[tsherkin]

Some fantastic conversation in this thread. And nice to see a reference to ElGee's work. Always nice to gain insight into how folks think about comparisons and award merits and what have you

[Lou Fan]

Honestly if I voted (not sure if I can or will) I think Jokic would be my POY even if he was swept out of first round unless Curry, Giannis, or Joel have an insane postseason. Maaaaaaaaaybe Tatum if he goes absolutely nuclear.

Glad for the Tatum mention. I think he should absolutely be on people's radars.

Incidentally, the 5 players you named are my regular season Top 5, and thus chances are very good one of them will be my POY (I'm not sure if I've ever seen a player go from out of my Top 5 to #1 before), though I certainly won't refuse to consider anyone else.

Great minds think alike. They're my top 5 as well. I am of course open to the possibility of an outlier but considering Jokic posted what I consider to be one of the best RS I've ever seen (perhaps best since 16 Curry) I have a heavy leaning his way. Not his fault he's severely outmatched in the first round. I would want to see a 17 Curry showing or a step above anything I've seen from Embiid/Giannis/Tatum to crown them. Don't want teams to influence POY especially because it's clear to me that Jokic would be highly portable.

[Dutchball97]

Honestly if I voted (not sure if I can or will) I think Jokic would be my POY even if he was swept out of first round unless Curry, Giannis, or Joel have an insane postseason. Maaaaaaaaaybe Tatum if he goes absolutely nuclear.

Glad for the Tatum mention. I think he should absolutely be on people's radars.

Incidentally, the 5 players you named are my regular season Top 5, and thus chances are very good one of them will be my POY (I'm not sure if I've ever seen a player go from out of my Top 5 to #1 before), though I certainly won't refuse to consider anyone else.

Kawhi in 2019 is the first to come to mind. Dirk in 2011 and Wade in 2006 were maybe top 5 in the regular season but not sure.

I just think we don't see it often because it is unlikely for someone who barely makes an All-NBA team to suddenly have the clear best play-off run out of nowhere. Even Kawhi is a bit of an exception in that he would've been top 5 if he didn't miss so many games.

[MyUniBroDavis]

I'm not changing any of my positions on players based on 2 playoff games personally.....

One of my least popular stance is you need years of playoff data and even then you still need to way the RS more than the PS.

I don’t think anyone needs to weigh anything any way, that’s gonna be opinion

There’s noise with playoff data cuz of samples but it also isn’t the exact same as regular season badketball either way

[sp6r=underrated]

How much was Trae harmed by this series on your all season ballot

[eminence]

Nets/Hawks the first two out. KD/Trae may have had very fringe chances to make a run at the POY ballot prior, but not exiting like this. Same probably true for OPOY, with both struggling mightily in their teams exits.

14 teams left.

[falcolombardi]

How much was Trae harmed by this series on your all season ballot

very

he is an all-O player who struggled mightly against strongest defense in the playoffs and while he had a impressive statistical season his team was dissapointing regular season

i probably would keep him out of a OPOY ballot

[LukaTheGOAT]

How much was Trae harmed by this series on your all season ballot

very

he is an all-O player who struggled mightly against strongest defense in the playoffs and while he had a impressive statistical season his team was dissapointing regular season

i probably would keep him out of a OPOY ballot

Just saying his team had the 2nd best offense in the RS, which a large tip in his cap. The team struggled on defense, and while he is certainly apart of that, I don't know if you would say the team underperformed relative to the injuries and talent they had.

[MyUniBroDavis]

How much was Trae harmed by this series on your all season ballot

Even if he hypothetically had an ATG offensive season, performing THIS badly in the playoffs has got to drop him heavily

[HeartBreakKid]

It did not occur to me that Young might be OPOY though I would have looked into it. I reckon I was subconsciously waiting for his playoff performance.

Without thinking too hard about it, I doubt he makes my ballot.

[jalengreen]

feel like my OPOY would have to be jokic. something like 1. jokic 2. steph 3. giannis 4. trae 5. luka right now perhaps.

[Homer38]

It would have been better for Trae to lose in the play-in but on the other hand this series could help him to become a much better player later.We will see

[Dutchball97]

Trae was definitely a candidate for OPOY but right now I don't see it. Jokic, Curry, Giannis would be my top 3 now and plenty of guys could also throw their name in the hat with a strong post-season.

[Texas Chuck]

How much was Trae harmed by this series on your all season ballot

He was never a threat for anything but consideration for OPOY. He had no chance of winning it unless he just went HAM in the playoffs. But I'm not sure there was anyone I had behind him who realistically had a chance to pass him now. Maybe Tatum?

But no question he was held totally in check by Miami. Incredible job by them.

[sp6r=underrated]

How much was Trae harmed by this series on your all season ballot

He was never a threat for anything but consideration for OPOY. He had no chance of winning it unless he just went HAM in the playoffs. But I'm not sure there was anyone I had behind him who realistically had a chance to pass him now. Maybe Tatum?

But no question he was held totally in check by Miami. Incredible job by them.

In the 3 point era, we're probably going to see more outlier series in both directions. Higher 3 point shooting is good for overall efficiency but it is a high varience shot.

In a small sample size, 3 point centric players are going to have more extreme stretches of play.

[Outside]

For the RS, Trae Young is second in O-LEBRON, second in offensive RAPTOR, and fourth in Offensive BPM, which is difficult to ignore. The fact that he was throttled so badly in the Miami series is also difficult to ignore. I might sneak him in if OPOY were a five-player ballot, since it's a three-player ballot, I don't see him making the cut.

Jokic is the clear leader. I don't know of an offensive metric out there that doesn't have him first. Giannis, Embiid, Curry, and Doncic are the others in the running, with Doncic trailing due to his slow start to the season. I initially thought Booker would be in there, but he's 13th in both O-LEBRON and offensive RAPTOR, and it's hard for me to make a case for him just because he was the best offensive player on the best RS team.

I don't have a formula, but I value the PS highly. Trae's PS was really bad.

[MyUniBroDavis]

For the RS, Trae Young is second in O-LEBRON, second in offensive RAPTOR, and fourth in Offensive BPM, which is difficult to ignore. The fact that he was throttled so badly in the Miami series is also difficult to ignore. I might sneak him in if OPOY were a five-player ballot, since it's a three-player ballot, I don't see him making the cut.

Jokic is the clear leader. I don't know of an offensive metric out there that doesn't have him first. Giannis, Embiid, Curry, and Doncic are the others in the running, with Doncic trailing due to his slow start to the season. I initially thought Booker would be in there, but he's 13th in both O-LEBRON and offensive RAPTOR, and it's hard for me to make a case for him just because he was the best offensive player on the best RS team.

I don't have a formula, but I value the PS highly. Trae's PS was really bad.

Tbf O-LEBRON is the only stat there that’s worth, RAPTOR I’ve heard is absolute garbage lol

[falcolombardi]

For the RS, Trae Young is second in O-LEBRON, second in offensive RAPTOR, and fourth in Offensive BPM, which is difficult to ignore. The fact that he was throttled so badly in the Miami series is also difficult to ignore. I might sneak him in if OPOY were a five-player ballot, since it's a three-player ballot, I don't see him making the cut.

Jokic is the clear leader. I don't know of an offensive metric out there that doesn't have him first. Giannis, Embiid, Curry, and Doncic are the others in the running, with Doncic trailing due to his slow start to the season. I initially thought Booker would be in there, but he's 13th in both O-LEBRON and offensive RAPTOR, and it's hard for me to make a case for him just because he was the best offensive player on the best RS team.

I don't have a formula, but I value the PS highly. Trae's PS was really bad.

Tbf O-LEBRON is the only stat there that’s worth, RAPTOR I’ve heard is absolute garbage lol

as far as i understand is not LEBRON the improved RAPTOR?

[Outside]

For the RS, Trae Young is second in O-LEBRON, second in offensive RAPTOR, and fourth in Offensive BPM, which is difficult to ignore. The fact that he was throttled so badly in the Miami series is also difficult to ignore. I might sneak him in if OPOY were a five-player ballot, since it's a three-player ballot, I don't see him making the cut.

Jokic is the clear leader. I don't know of an offensive metric out there that doesn't have him first. Giannis, Embiid, Curry, and Doncic are the others in the running, with Doncic trailing due to his slow start to the season. I initially thought Booker would be in there, but he's 13th in both O-LEBRON and offensive RAPTOR, and it's hard for me to make a case for him just because he was the best offensive player on the best RS team.

I don't have a formula, but I value the PS highly. Trae's PS was really bad.

Tbf O-LEBRON is the only stat there that’s worth, RAPTOR I’ve heard is absolute garbage lol

LEBRON is the metric I prefer based on what I know about it. I'm not as familiar with RAPTOR, but in this case, RAPTOR had the same rankings as LEBRON in the instances I cited (Trae, Jokic, Booker), so based on that, I can't point to LEBRON and say it's great but RAPTOR sucks.

BPM is a crude tool. It doesn't count for much, but I at least look at it. It's more credible on the offensive side than defensive, that's for sure.

ESPN's RPM has basically fallen off their site, which I find curious. Are they still paying Englemann for it? It's not on the NBA Stats drop-down menu, but you can get to it by using the URL http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm. They don't have any transparency about the formula, and it has so many outliers that Englemann fans try to wave away but are like blinking red lights to me. I don't use it except to periodically check it out and see if the outliers are still there.