FJS wrote:using the Kings as an excuse for the Jazz not winning a title
I am not sure where you get the idea that the Kings of the early 00s were always dominant teams or that they were one of the best teams to not win a title. The only year where they really had a shot was 2002, their window of opportunity was only 3 years when Peja started playing well and Webber became a top 10 player in the league at that time. This is a huge contrast to the Jazz where Malone, a top 15 player, and Stockton, a top 40 player, had 14 years of their peak overlap each other and had plenty of opportunities to do damage.
erudite23 wrote:It IS circular logic, because if you are a top player its because you win championships and you win championships if you're a top player, there is no way to prove either. It IS consistent, but its also circular. Its the one unavoidable flaw in sport fandom.
Or maybe, one becomes a top player because they are good enough to push their team to a title. Having two players who are top 10 each season for over a decade and not win a title is practically unheard of. Basketball is a sport where one player can have big influence over the outcome because there are only 10 players on the court and the game is not nearly as static as the other major sports. I don't think anyone can question how much impact a basketball star player can make compared to star players from all the other sports.
Really, two players of Malone and Stockton's caliber, no injury problem, and having the luxury of working with the same coach for 15 years, it shouldn't take a specific or an all world supporting cast for them to win. I've seen Sloan mentioned a few times in the past when explaining why they always fall short, Malone plenty of times for failing to deliver in the clutch, yet anyone who defends the Jazz never put anything on Stockton, because he's a short and not very athletic PG whom people are more willing to forgive for underperforming. It's as if, since his apologists think he's supposed to be a limited player, having disappointing performances should not be held against him because he usually plays above expectation, which would be any 15/12 game that he has.
Ironically the 98 Jazz had the best chance to win the title, and that was the year when Stockton was on a clear decline.