The Lebron Thread (2015-16 Pt. 4)

Moderators: Clyde Frazier, Doctor MJ, trex_8063, penbeast0, PaulieWal

User avatar
toodles23
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,116
And1: 3,538
Joined: Jun 09, 2010

Re: The Lebron Thread (2015-16 Pt. 4) 

Post#1001 » by toodles23 » Fri Jun 24, 2016 1:49 am

Tim_Hardawayy wrote:I hope KD goes east even if it isn't Miami, because LeBron having a free pass to the Finals is getting a bit boring. At least 2011 and 2012 he had to put down the Celtics for good (and a pretty good Bulls team), its basically been trash and pretenders since then. This year was arguably the worst, that Raptors team was perhaps the worst conference finals team I've ever seen since I've been watching basketball and the only thing they did was help to wake the Cavs up a bit with those 2 losses.

The Raptors were (are) a crap team, but I think all 4 ECF teams in '02 and '03 were worse. That was a ridiculously weak 2 year stretch for the East, when the Pacers had 3 bad years (thanks Isiah!) and the Pistons hadn't yet made the Sheed trade.

I doubt KD goes East though, there's no situation that makes sense for him. I think it's going to be between the Warriors, Thunder, and maybe the Spurs.
User avatar
PaulieWal
Forum Mod
Forum Mod
Posts: 13,909
And1: 16,218
Joined: Aug 28, 2013

Re: The Lebron Thread (2015-16 Pt. 4) 

Post#1002 » by PaulieWal » Fri Jun 24, 2016 1:55 am

RSCD3_ wrote:
PaulieWal wrote:
MisterHibachi wrote:I know Love is highly unlikely to get traded, but if he was, which trade packages would bring back good/equal value?


Funny thing, I didn't think KD was leaving until this garbage trade IMO. Where is the spacing now with Dipo, Roberson and Russ on the floor? Don't like this trade one bit.



Odd the consensus seems to be Ibaka's return was higher than expected. OKC can't pay everyone, yet they got a great young two for perimeter depth, a floor spacer and a promising young big who can play C

Ibaka also has been on a decline lately.


Right, how exactly does the fit work? OKC's problem since 2012 always has been their crunch time line up. So now you are going to play a lineup of Russ, Dipo (Waiters), Roberson, KD, and Adams? That's horrible spacing man. Roberson was hitting his 3 a bit in the first 4-5 games but they need Ibaka's floor spacing or rather a player in general who can shoot.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/Matthew_Tynan/status/746163177671495680[/tweet]
JordansBulls wrote:The Warriors are basically a good college team until they meet a team with bigs in the NBA.
andrewww
General Manager
Posts: 7,989
And1: 2,687
Joined: Jul 26, 2006

Re: The Lebron Thread (2015-16 Pt. 4) 

Post#1003 » by andrewww » Fri Jun 24, 2016 1:59 am

I don't remember outside forces (Green suspension game 5/Curry foul trouble game 6/Bogut injury/Iggy bad back) affecting the 2013 series.

But if you write down the last 90 seconds of game 6 2013 it's quite painful:

1:30 - Parker hits a wild step-back hero-ball 3 pt in James' grill to tie it up at 89-89
0:58 - Parker hits an insane 360 spin around tear drop to put SA up 91-89
0:40 - James hero-balls 20 seconds off the clock, posting up Parker and throws a wild pass Duncan deflects to Leonard
0:37 - Manu hits 2 FTs to put Spurs up 93-89
0:30 - Once again James dribbles the ball and throws up an airball/pass? leading to Manu getting the ball and being fouled
0:28 - Manu goes 1/2 to go up 94-89
0:25 - James clanks badly a 3pt, but Duncan/Leonard knock the ball from each other's hands
0:20 - James finally makes a 3pt off the previous missed rebound - 94-92 Spurs
0:19 - Kawhi goes 1/2 on FTs. 95-92 Spurs
0:11 - James bricks a 3pt, but Bosh gets the board and throws it out....
0:05 - Allen hits the shot heard round the world - tie game 95-95
0:00 - Parker goes full court and gets bodied by James on his shot....OT

OT itself was down to the wire with Green getting a lot of contact on his 3pt tying attempt. Me thinks if Spurs were down 3-2 thats a foul, and ditto for when Parker got Bodied by James end of regulation. But up 3-2 theyd have to make their shots unless its a foul so obvious the refs are left with no choice but to call it.

Had Spurs made just one more FT or grab 1 more rebound I think they win, and James' legacy is lessend with the weak last-minute performance highlighted above.

Its a make or miss league though, other than 2012 when the Heat outclassed OKC.
dreamshake
Starter
Posts: 2,296
And1: 2,484
Joined: May 13, 2014
     

Re: The Lebron Thread (2015-16 Pt. 4) 

Post#1004 » by dreamshake » Fri Jun 24, 2016 4:09 am

andrewww wrote:I don't remember outside forces (Green suspension game 5/Curry foul trouble game 6/Bogut injury/Iggy bad back) affecting the 2013 series.

But if you write down the last 90 seconds of game 6 2013 it's quite painful:

1:30 - Parker hits a wild step-back hero-ball 3 pt in James' grill to tie it up at 89-89
0:58 - Parker hits an insane 360 spin around tear drop to put SA up 91-89
0:40 - James hero-balls 20 seconds off the clock, posting up Parker and throws a wild pass Duncan deflects to Leonard
0:37 - Manu hits 2 FTs to put Spurs up 93-89
0:30 - Once again James dribbles the ball and throws up an airball/pass? leading to Manu getting the ball and being fouled
0:28 - Manu goes 1/2 to go up 94-89
0:25 - James clanks badly a 3pt, but Duncan/Leonard knock the ball from each other's hands
0:20 - James finally makes a 3pt off the previous missed rebound - 94-92 Spurs
0:19 - Kawhi goes 1/2 on FTs. 95-92 Spurs
0:11 - James bricks a 3pt, but Bosh gets the board and throws it out....
0:05 - Allen hits the shot heard round the world - tie game 95-95
0:00 - Parker goes full court and gets bodied by James on his shot....OT

OT itself was down to the wire with Green getting a lot of contact on his 3pt tying attempt. Me thinks if Spurs were down 3-2 thats a foul, and ditto for when Parker got Bodied by James end of regulation. But up 3-2 theyd have to make their shots unless its a foul so obvious the refs are left with no choice but to call it.

Had Spurs made just one more FT or grab 1 more rebound I think they win, and James' legacy is lessend with the weak last-minute performance highlighted above.

Its a make or miss league though, other than 2012 when the Heat outclassed OKC.


Start the play-by-play at the beginning of the 4th quarter and it paints a little bit different picture.
User avatar
Dupp
RealGM
Posts: 112,394
And1: 67,145
Joined: Aug 16, 2009
Location: Lifelong Nuggets Fan
 

Re: The Lebron Thread (2015-16 Pt. 4) 

Post#1005 » by Dupp » Fri Jun 24, 2016 4:11 am

Ibaka is nowhere near the defender he was in 2013.... Great move for the thunder...
What an athletic team
User avatar
PaulieWal
Forum Mod
Forum Mod
Posts: 13,909
And1: 16,218
Joined: Aug 28, 2013

Re: The Lebron Thread (2015-16 Pt. 4) 

Post#1006 » by PaulieWal » Fri Jun 24, 2016 4:14 am

Dupp wrote:Ibaka is nowhere near the defender he was in 2013.... Great move for the thunder...
What an athletic team


We are also going to see teams completely pack the paint against OKC now. Even if his game has fallen off he still provides spacing.
JordansBulls wrote:The Warriors are basically a good college team until they meet a team with bigs in the NBA.
User avatar
Dupp
RealGM
Posts: 112,394
And1: 67,145
Joined: Aug 16, 2009
Location: Lifelong Nuggets Fan
 

Re: The Lebron Thread (2015-16 Pt. 4) 

Post#1007 » by Dupp » Fri Jun 24, 2016 4:24 am

PaulieWal wrote:
Dupp wrote:Ibaka is nowhere near the defender he was in 2013.... Great move for the thunder...
What an athletic team


We are also going to see teams completely pack the paint against OKC now. Even if his game has fallen off he still provides spacing.



As far as 3pt shooting goes Ibaka really wasn't very good at all this year. Dipo shot the three ball better actually.

"Small" ball of goat, dipo, Roberson, kd and Adams could be very nice
User avatar
PCProductions
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,763
And1: 3,989
Joined: Apr 18, 2012
 

Re: The Lebron Thread (2015-16 Pt. 4) 

Post#1008 » by PCProductions » Fri Jun 24, 2016 5:00 am

andrewww wrote:
Spoiler:
I don't remember outside forces (Green suspension game 5/Curry foul trouble game 6/Bogut injury/Iggy bad back) affecting the 2013 series.

But if you write down the last 90 seconds of game 6 2013 it's quite painful:

1:30 - Parker hits a wild step-back hero-ball 3 pt in James' grill to tie it up at 89-89
0:58 - Parker hits an insane 360 spin around tear drop to put SA up 91-89
0:40 - James hero-balls 20 seconds off the clock, posting up Parker and throws a wild pass Duncan deflects to Leonard
0:37 - Manu hits 2 FTs to put Spurs up 93-89
0:30 - Once again James dribbles the ball and throws up an airball/pass? leading to Manu getting the ball and being fouled
0:28 - Manu goes 1/2 to go up 94-89
0:25 - James clanks badly a 3pt, but Duncan/Leonard knock the ball from each other's hands
0:20 - James finally makes a 3pt off the previous missed rebound - 94-92 Spurs
0:19 - Kawhi goes 1/2 on FTs. 95-92 Spurs
0:11 - James bricks a 3pt, but Bosh gets the board and throws it out....
0:05 - Allen hits the shot heard round the world - tie game 95-95
0:00 - Parker goes full court and gets bodied by James on his shot....OT

OT itself was down to the wire with Green getting a lot of contact on his 3pt tying attempt. Me thinks if Spurs were down 3-2 thats a foul, and ditto for when Parker got Bodied by James end of regulation. But up 3-2 theyd have to make their shots unless its a foul so obvious the refs are left with no choice but to call it.

Had Spurs made just one more FT or grab 1 more rebound I think they win, and James' legacy is lessend with the weak last-minute performance highlighted above.

Its a make or miss league though, other than 2012 when the Heat outclassed OKC.

It also says a lot about how people emphasize the end of a series more than the beginning. I mean that Parker shot to win Game 1 was basically one frame in slow motion from being a 24 second violation. Winning Games 1 and 2 would change everything for that series.
HeartBreakKid
RealGM
Posts: 22,395
And1: 18,828
Joined: Mar 08, 2012
     

Re: The Lebron Thread (2015-16 Pt. 4) 

Post#1009 » by HeartBreakKid » Fri Jun 24, 2016 5:04 am

PaulieWal wrote:
Dupp wrote:Ibaka is nowhere near the defender he was in 2013.... Great move for the thunder...
What an athletic team


We are also going to see teams completely pack the paint against OKC now. Even if his game has fallen off he still provides spacing.


Kanter can still hit a jumper if need be, and if Durant is playing the 4, I don't think this is going to make a big difference.




They also can now play a defensive player who isn't a total offensive liability in Oladipo - this was a really good deal for them considering Ibaka wasn't in their long term plans.
ceiling raiser
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,531
And1: 3,754
Joined: Jan 27, 2013

Re: The Lebron Thread (2015-16 Pt. 4) 

Post#1010 » by ceiling raiser » Fri Jun 24, 2016 5:18 am

kayess wrote:
JulesWinnfield wrote:Im not sure what to think about this deal, or more importantly what HE thinks about this deal, but I just see the writing on the wall for him there and hope I'm wrong.... And it's not like OKC is incapable. There is a difference between not having done something and being incapable of doing it. They've had championship caliber teams before, they've just had inopportune injuries at times, and sometimes somebody has to lose. Klay Thompson was out of his mind at the right time, otherwise they are in the finals with a shot. I do think the Cavs would have beaten them but nothing is guaranteed. Only one team can win it every year. They will continue to be in the hunt year in year out if he remains.


Edit: Just saw it, though Orlando was robbed of some draft picks or something. I hope they talked to KD beforehand about this, Serge was doing pretty well on Curry on those switches too.

Some of that was Curry not being 100% (TT is better this year most likely, but Curry couldn't shake him this Finals; same with Love on that last possession) IMO. But I do think he (Serge) was a key cog.

Paulie brings up a good point in terms of spacing, but I think defensively it creates more of a hole. OKC, for all intents and purposes, kind of figured out GSW's death lineup. The Warriors were very close to getting eliminated in five before Klay/Steph got into crazy shotmaking mode. They had no answer for WB-Roberson-Waiters-KD-Ibaka. During the season Ibaka didn't seem to be the same player he's been in recent years, but he was instrumental to that commanding 3-1 lead (and also, even if I didn't trust his shooting as much this year, it seems defenses still respected it enough not to sag off too much).

Adams is pretty mobile and very quick to react and recover defensively. But I wonder if he has the foot speed of Ibaka. Unless Ilyasova becomes a factor or Sabonis is an immediate contributor, that means Kanter is going to play heavy minutes. For the most part that's not a problem, and he was big in the SA series as well at times during the season. But he's unplayable against GS, who OKC will almost certainly need to get past in order to make the Finals.

Oladipo is a nice player though. I remember he was getting very favorable comparisons because of his defensive potential. From my understanding, Waiters is likely gone in free agency, and I think Oladipo should be able to fill his role better. We'll see though.

But yeah, I guess my grade of OKC's offseason will come down to what they can get in return for Kanter. If they can get even a passable 3-and-D wing who can run finish in transition, that would be a massive boon. But otherwise, I think Ibaka's absence will be felt, and it might be fatal in the likely WCF rematch.
Now that's the difference between first and last place.
kayess
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,807
And1: 1,000
Joined: Sep 29, 2013

Re: The Lebron Thread (2015-16 Pt. 4) 

Post#1011 » by kayess » Fri Jun 24, 2016 9:07 am

fpliii wrote:
kayess wrote:
JulesWinnfield wrote:Im not sure what to think about this deal, or more importantly what HE thinks about this deal, but I just see the writing on the wall for him there and hope I'm wrong.... And it's not like OKC is incapable. There is a difference between not having done something and being incapable of doing it. They've had championship caliber teams before, they've just had inopportune injuries at times, and sometimes somebody has to lose. Klay Thompson was out of his mind at the right time, otherwise they are in the finals with a shot. I do think the Cavs would have beaten them but nothing is guaranteed. Only one team can win it every year. They will continue to be in the hunt year in year out if he remains.


Edit: Just saw it, though Orlando was robbed of some draft picks or something. I hope they talked to KD beforehand about this, Serge was doing pretty well on Curry on those switches too.

Some of that was Curry not being 100% (TT is better this year most likely, but Curry couldn't shake him this Finals; same with Love on that last possession) IMO. But I do think he (Serge) was a key cog.

Paulie brings up a good point in terms of spacing, but I think defensively it creates more of a hole. OKC, for all intents and purposes, kind of figured out GSW's death lineup. The Warriors were very close to getting eliminated in five before Klay/Steph got into crazy shotmaking mode. They had no answer for WB-Roberson-Waiters-KD-Ibaka. During the season Ibaka didn't seem to be the same player he's been in recent years, but he was instrumental to that commanding 3-1 lead (and also, even if I didn't trust his shooting as much this year, it seems defenses still respected it enough not to sag off too much).

Adams is pretty mobile and very quick to react and recover defensively. But I wonder if he has the foot speed of Ibaka. Unless Ilyasova becomes a factor or Sabonis is an immediate contributor, that means Kanter is going to play heavy minutes. For the most part that's not a problem, and he was big in the SA series as well at times during the season. But he's unplayable against GS, who OKC will almost certainly need to get past in order to make the Finals.

Oladipo is a nice player though. I remember he was getting very favorable comparisons because of his defensive potential. From my understanding, Waiters is likely gone in free agency, and I think Oladipo should be able to fill his role better. We'll see though.

But yeah, I guess my grade of OKC's offseason will come down to what they can get in return for Kanter. If they can get even a passable 3-and-D wing who can run finish in transition, that would be a massive boon. But otherwise, I think Ibaka's absence will be felt, and it might be fatal in the likely WCF rematch.


I'm trying to make sense of this - they HAD to know Ibaka was going to be ultra valuable against GS. Unless OKC know something about him that we don't. He's going to walk next year, so that's another problem.

Their best lineup was GOAT/Waiters/Roberson/Durant/Adams against GS right? I wonder how many minutes Ibaka played - if they can replace those minutes they'll still probably be fine against GS, but yeah.
User avatar
bondom34
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 66,716
And1: 50,290
Joined: Mar 01, 2013

Re: The Lebron Thread (2015-16 Pt. 4) 

Post#1012 » by bondom34 » Fri Jun 24, 2016 9:10 am

This was a fantastic deal for OKC. :D Serge was gone in a year, and I think KD was OK with it.
MyUniBroDavis wrote: he was like YALL PEOPLE WHO DOUBT ME WILL SEE YALLS STATS ARE WRONG I HAVE THE BIG BRAIN PLAYS MUCHO NASTY BIG BRAIN BIG CHUNGUS BRAIN YOU BOYS ON UR BBALL REFERENCE NO UNDERSTANDO
Greatness
RealGM
Posts: 12,639
And1: 4,557
Joined: Aug 23, 2009
Location: Toronto
     

Re: The Lebron Thread (2015-16 Pt. 4) 

Post#1013 » by Greatness » Fri Jun 24, 2016 12:03 pm

The fit might not be the best, but that was a great trade for OKC value-wise. Ibaka has one year left on his deal and they managed to get a young talented SG and the 11th pick of the draft.
MyUniBroDavis
General Manager
Posts: 7,827
And1: 5,034
Joined: Jan 14, 2013

Re: The Lebron Thread (2015-16 Pt. 4) 

Post#1014 » by MyUniBroDavis » Fri Jun 24, 2016 12:08 pm

bondom34 wrote:This was a fantastic deal for OKC. :D Serge was gone in a year, and I think KD was OK with it.



Give us KD and we give you hield and our draft picks over the next 20 years.
User avatar
VideoGameJames
Sophomore
Posts: 241
And1: 147
Joined: Dec 15, 2013
Location: Vancouver

Re: The Lebron Thread (2015-16 Pt. 4) 

Post#1015 » by VideoGameJames » Fri Jun 24, 2016 12:33 pm

bondom34 wrote:This was a fantastic deal for OKC. :D Serge was gone in a year, and I think KD was OK with it.

Wouldn't you prefer Hezonja? seems like a perfect fit for OKC
User avatar
bondom34
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 66,716
And1: 50,290
Joined: Mar 01, 2013

Re: The Lebron Thread (2015-16 Pt. 4) 

Post#1016 » by bondom34 » Fri Jun 24, 2016 1:18 pm

VideoGameJames wrote:
bondom34 wrote:This was a fantastic deal for OKC. :D Serge was gone in a year, and I think KD was OK with it.

Wouldn't you prefer Hezonja? seems like a perfect fit for OKC

He'd never play, Dipo is everything Waiters was, only good at everything :lol:.
MyUniBroDavis wrote: he was like YALL PEOPLE WHO DOUBT ME WILL SEE YALLS STATS ARE WRONG I HAVE THE BIG BRAIN PLAYS MUCHO NASTY BIG BRAIN BIG CHUNGUS BRAIN YOU BOYS ON UR BBALL REFERENCE NO UNDERSTANDO
JordansBulls
RealGM
Posts: 60,477
And1: 5,355
Joined: Jul 12, 2006
Location: HCA (Homecourt Advantage)

Re: The Lebron Thread (2015-16 Pt. 4) 

Post#1017 » by JordansBulls » Fri Jun 24, 2016 7:51 pm

Image
"Talent wins games, but teamwork and intelligence wins championships."
- Michael Jordan
JulesWinnfield
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,830
And1: 6,489
Joined: Mar 24, 2013
Location: NY
   

Re: The Lebron Thread (2015-16 Pt. 4) 

Post#1018 » by JulesWinnfield » Fri Jun 24, 2016 8:36 pm

I'm just rewatching that 4th quarter of game 7 right now for the first time since I saw it live... How massive was that personal 6-0 run Lebron went on after Golden State took that 87-83 lead? That game felt like it was getting away from them. 7-0 Warriors run, crowd going nuts, they're up 87-83..... Back to back possessions Golden state switches on pick and rolls and he winds up with Ezeli on him... The first time Ezeli falls for a pump fake on a Lebron 3 and he hits all 3 free throws. The 2nd time Lebron hits the 3 in his face... That was just a massive 2 possessions at a time when it felt like Golden State was putting their foot down and about to make their push. Really just huge
User avatar
Dupp
RealGM
Posts: 112,394
And1: 67,145
Joined: Aug 16, 2009
Location: Lifelong Nuggets Fan
 

Re: The Lebron Thread (2015-16 Pt. 4) 

Post#1019 » by Dupp » Fri Jun 24, 2016 9:56 pm

bondom34 wrote:This was a fantastic deal for OKC. :D Serge was gone in a year, and I think KD was OK with it.



I think it's a great deal even if ibaka wanted to stay.

What's the deal with that why was he wanting to leave ? He's in a pretty sweet situation
User avatar
bondom34
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 66,716
And1: 50,290
Joined: Mar 01, 2013

Re: The Lebron Thread (2015-16 Pt. 4) 

Post#1020 » by bondom34 » Fri Jun 24, 2016 9:58 pm

Dupp wrote:
bondom34 wrote:This was a fantastic deal for OKC. :D Serge was gone in a year, and I think KD was OK with it.



I think it's a great deal even if ibaka wanted to stay.

What's the deal with that why was he wanting to leave ? He's in a pretty sweet situation

Not involved in the offense enough. Which is weird because he's got stone hands.

And not on this topic but I'm getting too many Cavs fans telling me Kyrie's better than Chris Paul right now.
MyUniBroDavis wrote: he was like YALL PEOPLE WHO DOUBT ME WILL SEE YALLS STATS ARE WRONG I HAVE THE BIG BRAIN PLAYS MUCHO NASTY BIG BRAIN BIG CHUNGUS BRAIN YOU BOYS ON UR BBALL REFERENCE NO UNDERSTANDO

Return to Player Comparisons