The Russell Westbrook Thread (2014/15)

[Jaivl]

Russell Westbrook has the closest thing to conqueror's haki that ive ever seen lol

I seriously think he has an adverse effect on his opponents with his intimidation

Russell D. Goat

[Shot Clock]

Yep, the thing is, I consider myself to mostly be an analytics fan, but Russ just defies everything I think about the game in literally every way imaginable. This team was 3-10 at one point, and its not just missing KD, though that's the biggest issue obviously. They went a stretch w/o Adams, now Ibaka, Collison, Jackson was essentially tanking this season, and they've never had a stable lineup. I'd give the MVP at this point to Harden based on the fact that he's in a similar situation and done it a few more games, but as crazy as it seems, I'd put Russ ahead of Curry. Curry's got at least 2/3 guys on that team who are at Ibaka's caliber this season, and they've had essentially zero injuries.

3-12, don't shortchange him

And I'm in the same boat, but Russ isn't necessarily defying analytics, he's defying the way we originally thought. Really it's just his ts% that looks 'bad' and it's above average. He impacts the game around scoring AND is a volume scorer. It really makes me wonder if we've misjudged Iverson.

I don't remember anyone suggesting you can't impact games with volume scoring on low efficiency. Most people just suggest you would impact it more with better shot selection.

[bondom34]

Yep, the thing is, I consider myself to mostly be an analytics fan, but Russ just defies everything I think about the game in literally every way imaginable. This team was 3-10 at one point, and its not just missing KD, though that's the biggest issue obviously. They went a stretch w/o Adams, now Ibaka, Collison, Jackson was essentially tanking this season, and they've never had a stable lineup. I'd give the MVP at this point to Harden based on the fact that he's in a similar situation and done it a few more games, but as crazy as it seems, I'd put Russ ahead of Curry. Curry's got at least 2/3 guys on that team who are at Ibaka's caliber this season, and they've had essentially zero injuries.

3-12, don't shortchange him

And I'm in the same boat, but Russ isn't necessarily defying analytics, he's defying the way we originally thought. Really it's just his ts% that looks 'bad' and it's above average. He impacts the game around scoring AND is a volume scorer. It really makes me wonder if we've misjudged Iverson.

I don't remember anyone suggesting you can't impact games with volume scoring on low efficiency. Most people just suggest you would impact it more with better shot selection.

But again, it's not low efficiency.

[Jaivl]

Then again, Iverson was no Westbrook.

[spearsy23]

Then again, Iverson was no Westbrook.

Of course not, but he is put down in similar ways and almost dismissed by most analytics fans. I think he was voted just outside the top fifty on here, which is probably a fair ranking. But this board is a lot more level headed than most and, as a whole, more capable of looking past pre-conceived biases. In the general world it's either Iverson is the best or he sucks, the truth is obviously somewhere in between and I wonder if we spend too much time on what he did wrong.

[spearsy23]

Yep, the thing is, I consider myself to mostly be an analytics fan, but Russ just defies everything I think about the game in literally every way imaginable. This team was 3-10 at one point, and its not just missing KD, though that's the biggest issue obviously. They went a stretch w/o Adams, now Ibaka, Collison, Jackson was essentially tanking this season, and they've never had a stable lineup. I'd give the MVP at this point to Harden based on the fact that he's in a similar situation and done it a few more games, but as crazy as it seems, I'd put Russ ahead of Curry. Curry's got at least 2/3 guys on that team who are at Ibaka's caliber this season, and they've had essentially zero injuries.

3-12, don't shortchange him

And I'm in the same boat, but Russ isn't necessarily defying analytics, he's defying the way we originally thought. Really it's just his ts% that looks 'bad' and it's above average. He impacts the game around scoring AND is a volume scorer. It really makes me wonder if we've misjudged Iverson.

I don't remember anyone suggesting you can't impact games with volume scoring on low efficiency. Most people just suggest you would impact it more with better shot selection.

Then you obviously aren't paying attention. There is a large, and vocal, contingent that are of the opinion Westbrook sucks and wouldn't want him on their team.

[Goudelock]

3-12, don't shortchange him

And I'm in the same boat, but Russ isn't necessarily defying analytics, he's defying the way we originally thought. Really it's just his ts% that looks 'bad' and it's above average. He impacts the game around scoring AND is a volume scorer. It really makes me wonder if we've misjudged Iverson.

I don't remember anyone suggesting you can't impact games with volume scoring on low efficiency. Most people just suggest you would impact it more with better shot selection.

Then you obviously aren't paying attention. There is a large, and vocal, contingent that are of the opinion Westbrook sucks and wouldn't want him on their team.

I'd say that those people have been drowned out by the Westbrook supporters the last few months. I'd take him on the Lakers in a heartbeat. My opinion is somewhere in the middle of the two extremes, though. He definitely does not suck; Westbrook is one of the best players in the league and is very entertaining to watch. However, he's not the best player in the league/better than healthy Durant, and would help his team if he was more selective with his shots (this applies only when Ibaka and Durant are healthy, because a contested Westbrook shot >>>>>>>> whatever crap Dion Waiters hurls at the rim).

[KD35Brah]

Westbrook is having so much fun playing the pick and roll game with Kanter and McGary, bigs who are great at catching the ball on the move and finishing. After years of Kendrick Perkins who is literally the worst big man in the league at this it's quite a change for him and is a big reason his assists has increased quite a bit since Kanter came. It was always obvious that he would massively benefit from playing with such big men and he's proving it with each passing game.

Agreed.

The way Adams, Mitch, and Kanter all play off Westbrook is a joy to watch.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mb1AxBAdzw[/youtube]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cej72aIr9Q8[/youtube]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaO7WrzAx04[/youtube]

His 4th quarter decision making is getting better during this stretch too.;

[Jedi32]

I don't know man some of the things I've seen Westbrook do are just amazing. To me when on his game he is the best player in the league, plus he's not just scoring he's rebounding and assisting. I would love for this guy to wear purple and gold!!!

[ardee]

I don't want to spoil the party, but I will say that the guy needs to get his turnovers under control. Up to 4-4.5/game is excusable with his usage, but he's at 7 a game in his last 10... that's a little crazy.

[bondom34]

I don't remember anyone suggesting you can't impact games with volume scoring on low efficiency. Most people just suggest you would impact it more with better shot selection.

Then you obviously aren't paying attention. There is a large, and vocal, contingent that are of the opinion Westbrook sucks and wouldn't want him on their team.

I'd say that those people have been drowned out by the Westbrook supporters the last few months. I'd take him on the Lakers in a heartbeat. My opinion is somewhere in the middle of the two extremes, though. He definitely does not suck; Westbrook is one of the best players in the league and is very entertaining to watch. However, he's not the best player in the league/better than healthy Durant, and would help his team if he was more selective with his shots (this applies only when Ibaka and Durant are healthy, because a contested Westbrook shot >>>>>>>> whatever crap Dion Waiters hurls at the rim).

They definitely haven't been drowned out. People are still calling him a stat Padder and claiming his triple doubles are at a a cost to the team, when the team is 8-2 in those games. He's getting no love in the MVP thread other than a select few posters, who are rapidly dismissed as not knowing anything. He had literally a 2/game streychwhen he came to earth, and people were already writing him off, yet again. The late game shot selection is the biggest weakness, but he seems to be working on it. If it improves, and his defense gets back to his usual, I see no real holes in him.

[PaulieWal]

If it improves, and his defense gets back to his usual, I see no real holes in him.

Except for the one in his face for which he wears the mask right now.

Truth be told, he will always remain polarizing for different reasons. Bill Simmons said it best: the mistakes he makes are sometimes so glaring that they detract from the all the good he does (paraphrasing here).

I have no doubt in my mind that if he were fully healthy and didn't miss any time he could do what Harden is doing with the Rockets. Neither of those guys are doing any real damage in the playoffs though if they don't get KD and Howard back healthy.

[bondom34]

If it improves, and his defense gets back to his usual, I see no real holes in him.

Except for the one in his face for which he wears the mask right now.

Truth be told, he will always remain polarizing for different reasons. Bill Simmons said it best: the mistakes he makes are sometimes so glaring that they detract from the all the good he does (paraphrasing here).

I have no doubt in my mind that if he were fully healthy and didn't miss any time he could do what Harden is doing with the Rockets. Neither of those guys are doing any real damage in the playoffs though if they don't get KD and Howard back healthy.

Yup, for once I agree with Simmons. And to be honest, I'd put him second in MVP right now, with Harden first and Curry third, though I'll surely be roasted for that.

[PaulieWal]

If it improves, and his defense gets back to his usual, I see no real holes in him.

Except for the one in his face for which he wears the mask right now.

Truth be told, he will always remain polarizing for different reasons. Bill Simmons said it best: the mistakes he makes are sometimes so glaring that they detract from the all the good he does (paraphrasing here).

I have no doubt in my mind that if he were fully healthy and didn't miss any time he could do what Harden is doing with the Rockets. Neither of those guys are doing any real damage in the playoffs though if they don't get KD and Howard back healthy.

Yup, for once I agree with Simmons. And to be honest, I'd put him second in MVP right now, with Harden first and Curry third, though I'll surely be roasted for that.

Naw, that's a reasonable opinion to hold though I would go Curry, Harden, GOAT, and then maybe LeBron.

I honestly think Curry has been the best player in the league this season and certainly better than Harden and RUss for me. I will admit it, I am biased against Harden. I find him to be one of the most boring superstars to watch of all-time so maybe I am not being objective here but in terms of watchability it's: Russ and Curry. Harden doesn't even register for me lol.

If the Warrions win ~65 games in this brutal West, Curry has to get it IMO.

[bondom34]

Except for the one in his face for which he wears the mask right now.

Truth be told, he will always remain polarizing for different reasons. Bill Simmons said it best: the mistakes he makes are sometimes so glaring that they detract from the all the good he does (paraphrasing here).

I have no doubt in my mind that if he were fully healthy and didn't miss any time he could do what Harden is doing with the Rockets. Neither of those guys are doing any real damage in the playoffs though if they don't get KD and Howard back healthy.

Yup, for once I agree with Simmons. And to be honest, I'd put him second in MVP right now, with Harden first and Curry third, though I'll surely be roasted for that.

Naw, that's a reasonable opinion to hold though I would go Curry, Harden, GOAT, and then maybe LeBron.

I honestly think Curry has been the best player in the league this season and certainly better than Harden and RUss for me. I will admit it, I am biased against Harden. I find him to be one of the most boring superstars to watch of all-time so maybe I am not being objective here but in terms of watchability it's: Russ and Curry. Harden doesn't even register for me lol.

If the Warrions win ~65 games in this brutal West, Curry has to get it IMO.

I completely get that train of thought too, and had Curry til recently when I tried to put my Harden bias aside and look at it more. If I look at the three rosters and rank healthy players, Curry is best but best and most valuable don't match. After Curry I'd put Russ and Harden, then probably the next 2/3 guys are on GSW. Klay, Bogut, and Green all are better or equal to Ibaka this season to me, and haven't missed substantial time. Harden has no help at all and has been doing this longer than Russ, so I give an edge there.

[Greatness]

I'm with Bondom, Harden should be the MVP.

[PaulieWal]

I completely get that train of thought too, and had Curry til recently when I tried to put my Harden bias aside and look at it more. If I look at the three rosters and rank healthy players, Curry is best but best and most valuable don't match. After Curry I'd put Russ and Harden, then probably the next 2/3 guys are on GSW. Klay, Bogut, and Green all are better or equal to Ibaka this season to me, and haven't missed substantial time. Harden has no help at all and has been doing this longer than Russ, so I give an edge there.

Yeah, which is why if Harden did win I wouldn't be mad but I wouldn't like it, know what I mean?

However, he has been slumping lately (the 50 point game notwithstanding which was also incredibly boring lol) and if he finishes the season in a slump I objectively do think it's Curry's award.

Harden has had less help than Curry for sure but given he has more help he has produced fantastically and winning 65 games in this year's West is absolutely amazing. In that sense it balances out for me. Plus, I do think Curry is a better overall player than Harden so I think he deserves the MVP but this is one of those years where you have multiple candidates unlike 12,13, and 14 for example.

[PaulieWal]

I'm with Bondom, Harden should be the MVP.

Not you too .

Edit: I don't wanna make another post but GSW's point differential is 10.4 vs. 3.1 for Houston. Curry should get it lol.

Also, I remember SSB talking about Curry's raw +/- being on pace to smash MJ's record from 96 and GSW as a team is on pace to have the best point differential of any team in the West since the early 1970s.

[PaulieWal]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/royceyoung/status/580114178708492288[/tweet]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/tomhaberstroh/status/580004773895778304[/tweet]

[bondom34]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/royceyoung/status/580114178708492288[/tweet]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/tomhaberstroh/status/580004773895778304[/tweet]

The Haberstroh tweet is really amazing. Just b/c I think back to last year and people saying KD didn't need Russ, seems it works the other way too. People can say Russ is "holding him back" but they hold each other back, crazy how well they work together.