2021-22 NBA Season Discussion

[LukaTheGOAT]

Did Luka look lighter last night compared to the rest of the season? Maybe call it....Lipo-Luka

[Doctor MJ]

ben taylor once talked about how lone offensive stars in teams of defensive players and specialists often get the bulk of the credit for defensive improvements and i guess as far aa mvp goes that is now happening to steph

not that he is not a mvp level player, but most of the media and general public may not even be realizing warriors are winning with defense and a so-so offense and giving top much os the overall team succes credit to steph

So here's the thing:

The logic was never intended to be "If it's a defensively oriented team, then a defense-oriented player must be the MVP", because we have always known that one way to build around an offensive player is with a defensive supporting cast. Rather, the question is more how sure we are that the offensive star actually is providing the biggest impact on his particular defense-oriented team, and how we can identify this.

Skepticism is thus warranted, but where we have data supporting the conclusion, the skepticism should largely go away.

So, in the case of Isiah Thomas - who I think has had the most of this sort of debate out of anyone - we lack +/- data, and so many of us remain skeptical that a guy with meh box score stats who was largely ignored by MVP & All-NBA accolades during his contending years should be treated as if he represents his team as guys who put up better stats on champions with more offensive success - Bird, Magic, Jordan, the trio he and his supporters would like him grouped with.

But we've got the +/- stats for Curry this year, and they stand out completely from his his team. Here's the Warrior leaderboard for this year in raw +/-:

Curry +402
Wiggins +201
Green +196
Poole +190

That's an insane gap, and makes really clear who the essential piece of the Warriors success has been.

None of this means that Curry hasn't been slumping lately, or that that slump has had no effect on his value, but I think we're seeing that it's had remarkably little effect on his value compared to what we'd expect.

I'll say something explicitly: Is it possible that Curry is only able to maintain this effect because he's facing regular season team that are using less sophisticated strategies than they will in the playoffs? Might a playoff defense be more likely to recognize when Curry's in a slump and say "Okay, we're adjusting and we're going to clamp down on those other guys until your shooting warrants us adjusting back"? Absolutely.

And I'll also say that I don't begrudge people factoring in playoff speculation into their MVP votes. I'm not saying you should do so, but I'm also saying you shouldn't do it. I would encourage folks to be conscious that that is what they are doing. If, for example, you've decided that you won't consider Rudy Gobert for MVP until he proves his style of play can lead to a top tier playoff team, this makes sense to me - and I say this not out of personal skepticism toward Gobert, but out of respect to others' skepticism.

But none of that changes the fact that Gobert has been one of the most impactful regular season players these past two seasons, just as nothing changes the fact that the Warriors have been killing it whenever Curry plays.

One other note:

What's interesting about the Warriors showing a such an apparent +/- reliance on Curry this season is that they have been specifically grooming Poole to be able to play like this when Curry is out, and Poole seems like precisely the type of player you'd think might be able to make the team more Curry-invariant - similar size, can run, greater shooter, isn't afraid to shoot - and yet we're still seeing such a big difference even when Curry isn't necessarily shooting better than Poole is.

I think we should all be curious what all is involved in that difference. I do think Curry has various edges that might be grouped as "savvy", and I think those are significant, but I really do think reputation plays a role here.

And of course, that brings up the question of whether reputation should matter when considering an award like the MVP. I would say that if it's actually having an effect on the players on the court, it's valuable, and thus within the criteria.

[Doctor MJ]

If you haven't seen the latest fan voting it's here:


Current preferred lineups for fans:

West
Stephen Curry
Ja Morant
LeBron James
Nikola Jokic
Andrew Wiggins

East
DeMar DeRozan
Trae Young
Kevin Durant
Giannis Antetokounmpo
Joel Embiid

Main reason I felt compelled to post is my negative feeling toward seeing Wiggins' name here. I'm actually really happy to see what Wiggins has become in GS and I think he is a worthy all-star candidate...but, uh, if Wiggins gets all-star and somehow Draymond Green misses out, I'm going to have a huge problem with that.

I'm glad that the fans are putting Ja ahead of Luka to this point. I'm not cheering against Luka generally - I always want to see guys reach ceilings I've never witnessed before - but Ja is definitely more deserving of that "rising hero" fan buzz than Luka right this moment.

Over in the East I'll say I'm really surprised that LaMelo is proving so far to be far less of a fan vote favorite than Trae. I thought we'd see a pull for LaMelo that was analogous to Trae in his sophomore year, and we really aren't.

[falcolombardi]

If you haven't seen the latest fan voting it's here:


Current preferred lineups for fans:

West
Stephen Curry
Ja Morant
LeBron James
Nikola Jokic
Andrew Wiggins

East
DeMar DeRozan
Trae Young
Kevin Durant
Giannis Antetokounmpo
Joel Embiid

Main reason I felt compelled to post is my negative feeling toward seeing Wiggins' name here. I'm actually really happy to see what Wiggins has become in GS and I think he is a worthy all-star candidate...but, uh, if Wiggins gets all-star and somehow Draymond Green misses out, I'm going to have a huge problem with that.

I'm glad that the fans are putting Ja ahead of Luka to this point. I'm not cheering against Luka generally - I always want to see guys reach ceilings I've never witnessed before - but Ja is definitely more deserving of that "rising hero" fan buzz than Luka right this moment.

Over in the East I'll say I'm really surprised that LaMelo is proving so far to be far less of a fan vote favorite than Trae. I thought we'd see a pull for LaMelo that was analogous to Trae in his sophomore year, and we really aren't.

wiggins x Dangelo turned out to be such a big win-win move than i dont think many of us saw coming

[ShotCreator]

The defense and offense can't be separated tho, this isn't football. If Warriors had Shawn Marion and Amare starting instead of Draymond and Looney, we'd all be talking about how Warriors are winning with their offense. If Steph raises the floor of the offense to a certain level as the only real offensive creator on a team of catch and shoot guys and screen setters (excepting Poole who has been inconsistent this year), to the point where they can stack the roster with guys who's value is primarily on the defensive end, how should credit properly be apportioned?

That has nothing to do with him though. He just happens to be on a dominant defensive team. If they sucked on defense AND offense, which is very possible in the league (ahem Nuggets) then what’s his narrative? What’s left?

He could easily be on a terrible team on both ends. Them being better on the historically more important side of the ball, is a huge deal. But it’s a huge deal for the team. Realistically has nothing to do with him. I could just flip it and give the whole defense credit for his offense. Wouldn’t make sense. And it’s the exact same...logic and just superstar worship stuff.

Warriors are 14th on offense while they would possibly be 30th without him (for example they were 30th in the season without Curry) so that alone is important, that's before considering factors like how Curry allows some players to spend less energy on offense and try harder on defense which one of the reasons why Wiggins is better on D now than on Timberwolves.

That’s really not how basketball works. That’s a commonly held belief, but guys become, slow ancient, and fatigued and actually stay afloat, like prime levels afloat on D because D is more important mentally than physically.

You need to be super athletic to be super dominant on defense, but a good NBA defender? Most guys can get by with just knowing how. Not every guy, but many. Vince Carter was a good NBA defender at 40. And he wasn’t anything special at 30 on defense.

And many examples I can think of. Spending energy on offense? I mean they literally do spend energy on offense. They play offense with Stephen Curry. The outcomes of the possessions are whatever they are, but the effort level? I don’t think it’s anything different than it’d be if they could finish the same shots and make the same shots they take, more often.

I could, again, flip this and say having 5 and a half elite per minute defenders around you all game will enable you, Stephen Curry, in to being a dominant offensive player, because he doesn’t spend as much energy on D. Doesn’t track. But same logic.

Again, the Warriors could just suck on defense. They don’t actually have to be good on defense because they’re not good on offense. It’s not a trade off situation. It’s their talent makeup. They’re very talented, just not offensively. They should get full credit for that.

[falcolombardi]

That has nothing to do with him though. He just happens to be on a dominant defensive team. If they sucked on defense AND offense, which is very possible in the league (ahem Nuggets) then what’s his narrative? What’s left?

He could easily be on a terrible team on both ends. Them being better on the historically more important side of the ball, is a huge deal. But it’s a huge deal for the team. Realistically has nothing to do with him. I could just flip it and give the whole defense credit for his offense. Wouldn’t make sense. And it’s the exact same...logic and just superstar worship stuff.

Warriors are 14th on offense while they would possibly be 30th without him (for example they were 30th in the season without Curry) so that alone is important, that's before considering factors like how Curry allows some players to spend less energy on offense and try harder on defense which one of the reasons why Wiggins is better on D now than on Timberwolves.

That’s really not how basketball works. That’s a commonly held belief, but guys become, slow ancient, and fatigued and actually stay afloat, like prime levels afloat on D because D is more important mentally than physically.

You need to be super athletic to be super dominant on defense, but a good NBA defender? Most guys can get by with just knowing how. Not every guy, but many. Vince Carter was a good NBA defender at 40. And he wasn’t anything special at 30 on defense.

And many examples I can think of. Spending energy on offense? I mean they literally do spend energy on offense. They play offense with Stephen Curry. The outcomes of the possessions are whatever they are, but the effort level? I don’t think it’s anything different than it’d be if they could finish the same shots and make the same shots they take, more often.

I could, again, flip this and say having 5 and a half elite per minute defenders around you all game will enable you, Stephen Curry, in to being a dominant offensive player, because he doesn’t spend as much energy on D. Doesn’t track. But same logic.

Again, the Warriors could just suck on defense. They don’t actually have to be good on defense because they’re not good on offense. It’s not a trade off situation. It’s their talent makeup. They’re very talented, just not offensively. They should get full credit for that.

if anythingh, the warriors kerr system makes role player spend more Energy on offense (drivimg, running off ball) that they may spend in a heliocentric system where a helio star handles most possesions

no defensive player saves more Energy for defense than one spotting up for a 3

i can agree that curry makes good passers with weaker shooting or scoring (aka draymond) more valuable than they would be with a "on ball" star of comparable talent

warriors still would play draymond even if his offense sucked, but curry plays better around draymond weakness and strenghts than most players would (thst i think is a more convincing argument that saying warriors can only play draymond cause curry is there)

[mikejames23]

wiggins x Dangelo turned out to be such a big win-win move than i dont think many of us saw coming

This is a strange day for me, because I never saw Wiggins being a good player at all.

[RCM88x]

I feel like if you put any mildly skilled wing in the warriors system they would be able to do pretty well. Wiggins has always been capable of scoring at a decent level, just never been able to run offense or really make an impact defensively. It's really the perfect spot for him.

Not even close to an All-Star level player though, might as well vote Desmond Bane in too.

[feyki]

Did Luka look lighter last night compared to the rest of the season? Maybe call it....Lipo-Luka

Lebron also began with slower feet, but looks smooth now. Season starts always has handicaps for the players open to handicap .

[Doctor MJ]

wiggins x Dangelo turned out to be such a big win-win move than i dont think many of us saw coming

This is a strange day for me, because I never saw Wiggins being a good player at all.

I think the main revelation for me is on defense. As a prospect it was frequently noted that he had the body to be an excellent defender even though he hadn't really shown the instincts for it. Those hyping him - I remember both Wiggins & Jabari Parker got hyped as "best prospect since LeBron" before they played in college - were betting he'd figure it out. Myself, I've seen so many guys never figure out defense I was skeptical at first and then quite cynical.

But now he's an absolutely vital part of a great defense and he remains someone who can punish you if you're too focused on another attack on offense.

More than anything else, I owe Wiggins a compliment for the attitude he's displayed in embracing a role like this. So easy to see a guy who was a failed superstar prospect who just keeps insisting on "his game" rather than recognizing that the vast majority of successful NBA players do so by finding a niche they never would have been asked to play in a lesser league. Wiggins lacks the mentality of a superstar, but he has proven that he does have the mentality of a professional. I'm happy for him.

Re: Wiggins & D'Angelo trade. The whole thing where the Warriors essentially stole Russell from the T-Wolves in free agency, and then used him to trade for a player the T-Wolves needed to get rid of, is fascinating. I call BS on the idea that the Warrior front office deserves too much credit for all of this (I give a lot of credit to the court-level guys), but it absolutely worked out.

I'm still hesitant to say things are working out for the T-Wolves - they're well into KAT's prime and had the good fortune to get the #1 overall pick - yet despite that pick & Russell putatively working out, they're still not a Top 8 seed at this point. But what I will say is that I think Finch has done some creative things defensively with Russell that are fascinating, and that's a step in the right direction. Minny fans ought not to be the most depressed fanbase around, and that's a relief at least.

[Texas Chuck]

Main reason I felt compelled to post is my negative feeling toward seeing Wiggins' name here. I'm actually really happy to see what Wiggins has become in GS and I think he is a worthy all-star candidate...but, uh, if Wiggins gets all-star and somehow Draymond Green misses out, I'm going to have a huge problem with that.

I'm glad that the fans are putting Ja ahead of Luka to this point. I'm not cheering against Luka generally - I always want to see guys reach ceilings I've never witnessed before - but Ja is definitely more deserving of that "rising hero" fan buzz than Luka right this moment.

Over in the East I'll say I'm really surprised that LaMelo is proving so far to be far less of a fan vote favorite than Trae. I thought we'd see a pull for LaMelo that was analogous to Trae in his sophomore year, and we really aren't.

My take has always been the fans should vote for whoever they want. If that means young Kobe is a starting all-star when he shouldn't even be on the team, great. OR AC Green back during Showtime, fine. When they almost got Zaza in a few years back, I thought it was fun. When in the NHL they actually got a journeyman defensive defenseman in the game, I enjoyed it especially since he wasn't offended but was able to laugh at the whole thing.

As to Wiggins/Draymond the media portion should work to help on that. The players I would hope so too but you never really know with them.

With Ja and Luka? Yeah Ja deserves the nod over Luka based on the first half of the season. Plus its impossible to argue with how great he would be in an all-star format(though Luka is born for that too )


But the all-star game is for the fans, not for the analysts. And I assign zero weight to how many all-star games you made when evaluating your career.

[yoyoboy]

Minnesota’s starting lineup of Russell-Beverley-Edwards-Vanderbilt-KAT has a +38.6 net rating in 171 minutes and is 11-4 when they all start together. That’s nuts.

[Doctor MJ]

Minnesota’s starting lineup of Russell-Beverley-Edwards-Vanderbilt-KAT has a +38.6 net rating in 171 minutes and is 11-4 when they all start together. That’s nuts.

Yeah, I see the data and have to acknowledge I'm still holding on to my wallet, not really trusting that data yet. But it's a reason to be hopeful for Minny fans no doubt.

[Dutchball97]

Minnesota’s starting lineup of Russell-Beverley-Edwards-Vanderbilt-KAT has a +38.6 net rating in 171 minutes and is 11-4 when they all start together. That’s nuts.

Yeah, I see the data and have to acknowledge I'm still holding on to my wallet, not really trusting that data yet. But it's a reason to be hopeful for Minny fans no doubt.

Looking at EPM it isn't that farfetched this line-up is doing really well. Edwards has the lowest EPM of the 5 and he's a +2.1.

[Outside]

wiggins x Dangelo turned out to be such a big win-win move than i dont think many of us saw coming

This is a strange day for me, because I never saw Wiggins being a good player at all.

I think the main revelation for me is on defense. As a prospect it was frequently noted that he had the body to be an excellent defender even though he hadn't really shown the instincts for it. Those hyping him - I remember both Wiggins & Jabari Parker got hyped as "best prospect since LeBron" before they played in college - were betting he'd figure it out. Myself, I've seen so many guys never figure out defense I was skeptical at first and then quite cynical.

But now he's an absolutely vital part of a great defense and he remains someone who can punish you if you're too focused on another attack on offense.

More than anything else, I owe Wiggins a compliment for the attitude he's displayed in embracing a role like this. So easy to see a guy who was a failed superstar prospect who just keeps insisting on "his game" rather than recognizing that the vast majority of successful NBA players do so by finding a niche they never would have been asked to play in a lesser league. Wiggins lacks the mentality of a superstar, but he has proven that he does have the mentality of a professional. I'm happy for him.

Re: Wiggins & D'Angelo trade. The whole thing where the Warriors essentially stole Russell from the T-Wolves in free agency, and then used him to trade for a player the T-Wolves needed to get rid of, is fascinating. I call BS on the idea that the Warrior front office deserves too much credit for all of this (I give a lot of credit to the court-level guys), but it absolutely worked out.

I'm still hesitant to say things are working out for the T-Wolves - they're well into KAT's prime and had the good fortune to get the #1 overall pick - yet despite that pick & Russell putatively working out, they're still not a Top 8 seed at this point. But what I will say is that I think Finch has done some creative things defensively with Russell that are fascinating, and that's a step in the right direction. Minny fans ought not to be the most depressed fanbase around, and that's a relief at least.

Regarding Wiggins' defense, I don't know what he was asked to do in Minnesota, but the whole situation in Golden State has been ideal for him (and, as a result, for the Warriors).

From what I can tell, part of the problem in Minnesota was that he wasn't happy with his offensive role, and when a possession wasn't designed for him to get the ball, he'd basically stand on the perimeter and disengage, and that bled over to become disengagement on the defensive end because that's how he operates from a mental standpoint. Another part is that the Wolves were bad defensively, so him getting screened on the perimeter or just plain beat would often lead to the opponent scoring because there was no help coming, which turns into a feedback loop of negativity where he'd become unmotivated to exert the effort on defense if the team sucks at defense. Then there's the whole thing about losing as much as the Wolves did, which would feed his lack of effort.

Much has been made about Wiggins not being an alpha to lead a franchise, and that's true. That's just how he's wired. That's part of why the trade to the Warriors was so good for him, but it's more than that. The Warriors offense has lots of player movement and screening, and there are multiple options on every play, which keeps Wiggins engaged. It also creates quality looks for him, both on the perimeter and in the post, so that's all good for his mindset. On the defensive side, I cannot stress enough how beneficial it is to him to be part of a quality defense. Even when the Warriors were losing during the previous two seasons, the defense was active and near the top of the league in DRtg. Having helpers behind him is huge. The Warriors featured him on defense and gave him the support needed for him to be successful.

Having said that, he's really good defensively, but he's not first team all defense. A particular area of weakness is defending PnR when he's defending a ballhandler driving hard to the basket. He really needs a helper in those situations. But he's an effective defender in many situations as part of a good, connected defense. Like many players on the team, he benefits greatly by playing with Draymond. The Wolves didn't have any of that.

[Doctor MJ]

This is a strange day for me, because I never saw Wiggins being a good player at all.

I think the main revelation for me is on defense. As a prospect it was frequently noted that he had the body to be an excellent defender even though he hadn't really shown the instincts for it. Those hyping him - I remember both Wiggins & Jabari Parker got hyped as "best prospect since LeBron" before they played in college - were betting he'd figure it out. Myself, I've seen so many guys never figure out defense I was skeptical at first and then quite cynical.

But now he's an absolutely vital part of a great defense and he remains someone who can punish you if you're too focused on another attack on offense.

More than anything else, I owe Wiggins a compliment for the attitude he's displayed in embracing a role like this. So easy to see a guy who was a failed superstar prospect who just keeps insisting on "his game" rather than recognizing that the vast majority of successful NBA players do so by finding a niche they never would have been asked to play in a lesser league. Wiggins lacks the mentality of a superstar, but he has proven that he does have the mentality of a professional. I'm happy for him.

Re: Wiggins & D'Angelo trade. The whole thing where the Warriors essentially stole Russell from the T-Wolves in free agency, and then used him to trade for a player the T-Wolves needed to get rid of, is fascinating. I call BS on the idea that the Warrior front office deserves too much credit for all of this (I give a lot of credit to the court-level guys), but it absolutely worked out.

I'm still hesitant to say things are working out for the T-Wolves - they're well into KAT's prime and had the good fortune to get the #1 overall pick - yet despite that pick & Russell putatively working out, they're still not a Top 8 seed at this point. But what I will say is that I think Finch has done some creative things defensively with Russell that are fascinating, and that's a step in the right direction. Minny fans ought not to be the most depressed fanbase around, and that's a relief at least.

Regarding Wiggins' defense, I don't know what he was asked to do in Minnesota, but the whole situation in Golden State has been ideal for him (and, as a result, for the Warriors).

From what I can tell, part of the problem in Minnesota was that he wasn't happy with his offensive role, and when a possession wasn't designed for him to get the ball, he'd basically stand on the perimeter and disengage, and that bled over to become disengagement on the defensive end because that's how he operates from a mental standpoint. Another part is that the Wolves were bad defensively, so him getting screened on the perimeter or just plain beat would often lead to the opponent scoring because there was no help coming, which turns into a feedback loop of negativity where he'd become unmotivated to exert the effort on defense if the team sucks at defense. Then there's the whole thing about losing as much as the Wolves did, which would feed his lack of effort.

Much has been made about Wiggins not being an alpha to lead a franchise, and that's true. That's just how he's wired. That's part of why the trade to the Warriors was so good for him, but it's more than that. The Warriors offense has lots of player movement and screening, and there are multiple options on every play, which keeps Wiggins engaged. It also creates quality looks for him, both on the perimeter and in the post, so that's all good for his mindset. On the defensive side, I cannot stress enough how beneficial it is to him to be part of a quality defense. Even when the Warriors were losing during the previous two seasons, the defense was active and near the top of the league in DRtg. Having helpers behind him is huge. The Warriors featured him on defense and gave him the support needed for him to be successful.

Having said that, he's really good defensively, but he's not first team all defense. A particular area of weakness is defending PnR when he's defending a ballhandler driving hard to the basket. He really needs a helper in those situations. But he's an effective defender in many situations as part of a good, connected defense. Like many players on the team, he benefits greatly by playing with Draymond. The Wolves didn't have any of that.

Can't bold the bolded part enough.

Part of why I get so irritable defending the Warriors to folks is that I think it's critical for people to understand that you can't understand their success simply by putting a bunch of individual talents in place next to each other. The way Kerr has his team approach the game gives secondary players a way to be proactive, and that's how you get the most of them.

[Texas Chuck]

Minnesota’s starting lineup of Russell-Beverley-Edwards-Vanderbilt-KAT has a +38.6 net rating in 171 minutes and is 11-4 when they all start together. That’s nuts.

Sample size is so small, but no doubt they have some talented pieces in place and I sure it hope it works out. As a Mavs fan I will always have sympathy for franchises that can't get out of their own way for long stretches. The 90's were so bad in Dallas and only Dirk and Cuban saved us. I also am thrilled to see the Cavs winning for the first time in forever without Lebron and was glad to see Paul lift the Suns.

Now if we could just do something for the Kings or Magic.....

[Colbinii]

Nash is a really really bad coach. Cant be more than 5 worse coaches in the league if that.

So here's how I see it:

1. I think the Nets are being horribly coached.

2. Nash has no proven track record to establish that he's better than this, so he doesn't necessarily deserve the benefit of the doubt.

3. But I think Nash is largely being a "coach" the way that the superstars on his roster said they want their coach to be. The KD/Kyrie theory was that they didn't need a boss, they needed someone who would let them do their thing.

4. Perhaps the most disturbing thing about the Nets this year to me is the sheer MPG with which the superstars are playing, which Nash himself has said publicly is unsustainable. To me, that says that it's not been Nash's call. The players want to play the minutes they feel they need to play to win, and Nash isn't saying "No", because that would be a violation of the relationship he agreed to at the beginning.

So, not saying "No, Nash is a great coach!", but I think the worst things about the Nets' "coaching" aren't about Nash specifically, but are about what KD & Kyrie said they wanted when they got the legit good Atkinson fired and put Nash in place.

I think that the Nets are certainly playing with fire, and at any moment we could get a devastating injury to any of these players, and poof, there goes the entire experiment.

I also think that KD in particular playing so much tells us that the Nets' record is actually inflated compared to how good they are as a playoff team (Kyrie's missed time aside). The assumption that the superstars will have an extra gear in the playoffs now I think is naive, and already we see how they struggle whenever they play an actual contender.

I think these Nets easily could have won a title last year, but I'm not optimistic that they will win one now.

Obviously things can change if the Big 3 looks good enough together, and that Big 3 gets to play together every game. But given where we are with Covid, I'm not sure when that's actually realistic to expect.

Well...looks like the minutes caught up to Durant.

[falcolombardi]

Nash is a really really bad coach. Cant be more than 5 worse coaches in the league if that.

So here's how I see it:

1. I think the Nets are being horribly coached.

2. Nash has no proven track record to establish that he's better than this, so he doesn't necessarily deserve the benefit of the doubt.

3. But I think Nash is largely being a "coach" the way that the superstars on his roster said they want their coach to be. The KD/Kyrie theory was that they didn't need a boss, they needed someone who would let them do their thing.

4. Perhaps the most disturbing thing about the Nets this year to me is the sheer MPG with which the superstars are playing, which Nash himself has said publicly is unsustainable. To me, that says that it's not been Nash's call. The players want to play the minutes they feel they need to play to win, and Nash isn't saying "No", because that would be a violation of the relationship he agreed to at the beginning.

So, not saying "No, Nash is a great coach!", but I think the worst things about the Nets' "coaching" aren't about Nash specifically, but are about what KD & Kyrie said they wanted when they got the legit good Atkinson fired and put Nash in place.

I think that the Nets are certainly playing with fire, and at any moment we could get a devastating injury to any of these players, and poof, there goes the entire experiment.

I also think that KD in particular playing so much tells us that the Nets' record is actually inflated compared to how good they are as a playoff team (Kyrie's missed time aside). The assumption that the superstars will have an extra gear in the playoffs now I think is naive, and already we see how they struggle whenever they play an actual contender.

I think these Nets easily could have won a title last year, but I'm not optimistic that they will win one now.

Obviously things can change if the Big 3 looks good enough together, and that Big 3 gets to play together every game. But given where we are with Covid, I'm not sure when that's actually realistic to expect.

Well...looks like the minutes caught up to Durant.

unlikely that the cause was that, it was a freak contact injury where a teammate fell on him

[LukaTheGOAT]

Anfernee Simons as a starter this season (9 GP)

22.0 PTS
6.6 AST
3.0 REB

49.0 FG%
42.2 3P%
92.0 FT%
64.3 TS% (+8.6 rTS%)