PC Board All-Time Fantasy League Project - Discussion Thread

[DHodgkins]

Spoiler:

General list I went off of. The order isn't too accurate as I didn't go through each and do a major comparison since that'd take too much time. But it helped me out a bit so I didn't have to go searching for players as well I didn't care too much to do that.

PG
1. Magic Johnson
2. Chris Paul
3. Steve Nash
4. Gary Payton
5. Kevin Johnson
6. Jason Kidd
7. Penny Hardaway
8. John Stockton
9. Chauncey Billups
10. Terry Porter
11. Mark Price
12. Deron Williams
13. Derrick Rose
14. Tony Parker
15. Russell Westbrook
16. Tim Hardaway
17. Derek Harper
18. Fat Lever
19. Sam Cassell
20. Mike Bibby
21. Mookie Blaylock
22. Gus Williams
23. Danny Ainge
24. Rajon Rondo
25. Nate Archibald
questionable: Isiah Thomas

SG
1. Michael Jordan
2. Kobe Bryant
3. Dwyane Wade
4. Tracy McGrady (SF)
5. Ray Allen
6. Reggie Miller
7. Manu Ginobili - minutes
8. Clyde Drexler (SF)
9. James Harden
10. George Gervin
11. Mitch Richmond
12. Dale Ellis
13. Sidney Moncrief
14. Vince Carter (SF)
15. Brandon Roy
16. Joe Dumars
17. Eddie Jones
18. Jeff Hornacek
19. Dennis Johnson
20. Joe Johnson
21. Michael Redd
22. Michael Cooper
23. Dan Majerle
24. Dell Curry
25. Kevin Martin
26. Rolando Blackman
27. Jalen Rose
28. Klay Thompson
questionable: Allen Iverson, Alvin Robertson

SF
1. Lebron James (PF)
2. Larry Bird (PF)
3. Kevin Durant (PF)
4. Julius Erving
5. Scottie Pippen
6. Paul Pierce
7. Grant Hill
8. Chris Mullin
9. Shawn Marion (PF)
10. Andre Iguodala (SG)
11. Glen Rice
12. Marques Johnson (SG)
13. Carmelo Anthony
14. Peja Stojakovic
15. Paul George
16. Andrei Kirilenko (PF)
17. Danny Granger
18. Nicolas Batum
19. Alex English
20. James Worthy
21. Detlef Schrempf
22. Gerald Wallace
questionable: Dominique Wilkins, Bernard King, Adrian Dantley, Mark Aguirre

PF
1. Tim Duncan
2. Dirk Nowitzki
3. Kevin Garnett
4. Charles Barkley
5. Karl Malone
6. Kevin McHale
7. Pau Gasol (C)
8. Rasheed Wallace
9. Larry Nance
10. Chris Bosh
11. Elton Brand
12. Shawn Kemp
13. Dennis Rodman
14. Bobby Jones (SF)
15. Elvin Hayes (C)
16. Blake Griffin
17. Buck Williams
18. Lamar Odom
19. Horace Grant
20. Terry Cummings
21. LaMarcus Aldridge
22. Antawn Jamison
23. Toni Kukoc
24. Anthony Mason
questionable: Chris Webber, Antoine Walker

C
1. Shaquille O'Neal
2. Hakeem Olajuwon
3. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
4. David Robinson
5. Patrick Ewing
6. Alonzo Mourning
7. Dwight Howard
8. Robert Parish
9. Artis Gilmore
10. Dikembe Mutombo
11. Jack Sikma (PF)
12. Tyson Chandler
13. Yao Ming
14. Ben Wallace
15. Roy Hibbert
16. Arvydas Sabonis
17. Marc Gasol
18. Brad Daugherty
19. Jermaine O'Neal
20. Brook Lopez
21. Joahkim Noah
22. Marcus Camby
23. Mark Eaton
24. Vlade Divac
questionable: Bill Laimbeer

Hmmm, what do "questionable's" mean? I had 5 of them

[DHodgkins]

David Robinson = 94-96
Isiah Thomas = 84-86
Clyde Drexler = 90-92
Chris Webber = 99-01
Dominique Wilkins = 86-88
Alvin Robertson = 86-88
Rajon Rondo = 10-12
Marcus Camby = 06-08
Antoine Walker = 02-04
Latrell Sprewell = 94-96

[whitehops]

Hmmm, what do "questionable's" mean? I had 5 of them

I don't want to speak for him but I think it's because while they were considered good/great players at the time they are now regarded as being a combination of black holes/cancers, etc.

[john248]

Spoiler:

General list I went off of. The order isn't too accurate as I didn't go through each and do a major comparison since that'd take too much time. But it helped me out a bit so I didn't have to go searching for players as well I didn't care too much to do that.

PG
1. Magic Johnson
2. Chris Paul
3. Steve Nash
4. Gary Payton
5. Kevin Johnson
6. Jason Kidd
7. Penny Hardaway
8. John Stockton
9. Chauncey Billups
10. Terry Porter
11. Mark Price
12. Deron Williams
13. Derrick Rose
14. Tony Parker
15. Russell Westbrook
16. Tim Hardaway
17. Derek Harper
18. Fat Lever
19. Sam Cassell
20. Mike Bibby
21. Mookie Blaylock
22. Gus Williams
23. Danny Ainge
24. Rajon Rondo
25. Nate Archibald
questionable: Isiah Thomas

SG
1. Michael Jordan
2. Kobe Bryant
3. Dwyane Wade
4. Tracy McGrady (SF)
5. Ray Allen
6. Reggie Miller
7. Manu Ginobili - minutes
8. Clyde Drexler (SF)
9. James Harden
10. George Gervin
11. Mitch Richmond
12. Dale Ellis
13. Sidney Moncrief
14. Vince Carter (SF)
15. Brandon Roy
16. Joe Dumars
17. Eddie Jones
18. Jeff Hornacek
19. Dennis Johnson
20. Joe Johnson
21. Michael Redd
22. Michael Cooper
23. Dan Majerle
24. Dell Curry
25. Kevin Martin
26. Rolando Blackman
27. Jalen Rose
28. Klay Thompson
questionable: Allen Iverson, Alvin Robertson

SF
1. Lebron James (PF)
2. Larry Bird (PF)
3. Kevin Durant (PF)
4. Julius Erving
5. Scottie Pippen
6. Paul Pierce
7. Grant Hill
8. Chris Mullin
9. Shawn Marion (PF)
10. Andre Iguodala (SG)
11. Glen Rice
12. Marques Johnson (SG)
13. Carmelo Anthony
14. Peja Stojakovic
15. Paul George
16. Andrei Kirilenko (PF)
17. Danny Granger
18. Nicolas Batum
19. Alex English
20. James Worthy
21. Detlef Schrempf
22. Gerald Wallace
questionable: Dominique Wilkins, Bernard King, Adrian Dantley, Mark Aguirre

PF
1. Tim Duncan
2. Dirk Nowitzki
3. Kevin Garnett
4. Charles Barkley
5. Karl Malone
6. Kevin McHale
7. Pau Gasol (C)
8. Rasheed Wallace
9. Larry Nance
10. Chris Bosh
11. Elton Brand
12. Shawn Kemp
13. Dennis Rodman
14. Bobby Jones (SF)
15. Elvin Hayes (C)
16. Blake Griffin
17. Buck Williams
18. Lamar Odom
19. Horace Grant
20. Terry Cummings
21. LaMarcus Aldridge
22. Antawn Jamison
23. Toni Kukoc
24. Anthony Mason
questionable: Chris Webber, Antoine Walker

C
1. Shaquille O'Neal
2. Hakeem Olajuwon
3. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
4. David Robinson
5. Patrick Ewing
6. Alonzo Mourning
7. Dwight Howard
8. Robert Parish
9. Artis Gilmore
10. Dikembe Mutombo
11. Jack Sikma (PF)
12. Tyson Chandler
13. Yao Ming
14. Ben Wallace
15. Roy Hibbert
16. Arvydas Sabonis
17. Marc Gasol
18. Brad Daugherty
19. Jermaine O'Neal
20. Brook Lopez
21. Joahkim Noah
22. Marcus Camby
23. Mark Eaton
24. Vlade Divac
questionable: Bill Laimbeer

Hmmm, what do "questionable's" mean? I had 5 of them

I wouldn't put too much stock into my list or anything since we all have differing opinions on a player's value and how to construct a team. I just put guys as questionable to see where they get drafted and to consider them if they fell.
A guy like Isiah is someone I would've targeted in the 7-10th rounds when a number of PGs went. I do like him as a playoff performer. You'd essentially have to believe he was much better than someone like Kevin Johnson, who peak for peak are comparable, to take him that early. Impact wise, they are similar even if I side with KJ. Then there's a number of PGs to take later too going by how the draft was trending and what the general perception was going into the draft.
Nique was the classic example of if you're not a scorer, you're a defender. I don't want to be too harsh on him even if he is 1 dimensional. I think the crap he gets for being a poor playoff performer is a tad overblown since his efficiency numbers only dropped a couple percentage points which is normal/reasonable.
It was probably unfair for me to put Webber on a questionable list. I like his game style better with the Bullets than with the Kings which many will disagree with. But he was immature in Washington to say the least. He actually isn't that good of a rebounder either as the numbers would suggest. So if you have a guy who likes to settle for jump shots, hopefully he can clean up on the defensive boards better on the other side. FWIW, Dirk is a better defensive rebounder than Webber. This may be an unfair comparison given Dirk is the better player, but Dirk isn't known for rebounding either.
Robertson is a good player, but no hand check hurts him & I never thought he was a good scorer. Much rather have a 3&D type in this case.
However, your team can be explosive. There are a couple defensive orientated teams here where you know the games are going to be close where those if you happen to be falling behind, you know they're not going to get away. You have a team that can blow out a team 1 game then maybe fall apart the next. It's why I think everyone has a shot here. There are a few teams that I feel are better than mine that will take it.
As for undrafted Dantley and Aguirre, I saw both of them as ball stoppers on offense. Dantley wasn't known as a good teammate either. I'd rather have Aguirre who can at least settle into a role better. I left Moses off the centers list, but just forgot to put him on the questionable part.

[MisterHibachi]

Added the recently declared years. To those who haven't done so yet, make sure to check the OP in the draft thread to make sure I transferred the years correctly. If there's any mistakes let me know.

These guys still haven't chosen years yet:
Narigo
Notanoob
Sagittaron
RSCD3_
Bruh Man
HeartBreakKid
whitehops

[ThunderDan9]

I don't think it's to interesting, but here is a quick review of my draft.

1. Bird - I "wrote down" the holy 7 (MJ, Magic, Bird, Lebron, Duncan, Shaq, Hakeem) on my paper, so I just had to wait which 2 of them remains for me... it was an easy - sentimental - choice with Bird over Duncan

2. Howard - that was difficult. My first thought was Drexler. I would have really loved the offensive dynamism with Larry and Clyde, and he Clyde seemed like a perfect Robin to my Batman. Then I planned to pick up Parish with my 3rd pick. The other great choice was McHale, but that would have been boring. But when Q drafted Mourning, I kind of panicked... I thought prime Howard is a reasonable bargain at that point. And the chain-reaction continued, soon the likes of Mutombo and Parish were taken... so I Parish wouldn't have been available for me in the 3rd round, after all...

3. Ginobili - and Drexler - surprisingly - almost fell to me in the 3rd round! Ginobili was a pretty easy choice, I thought he was the best available SG. Apart from Manu, I looked at PG's, most notably Stockton (that would have been overkill with Larry ) and Kidd, but I strongly felt that there are many great PG's left (a lot of them hard to separate from eachother), but from the SG-pool Manu stood out.

4. Price - I liked this pick the most. The alternative would have been to completely forget the PG spot until the 8th round or so, but I really love what prime Price brings to the table offensively.

5. Grant - And FINALLY the snake comes back! I can tell you, that rounds 2-4 were really difficult, and I wasn't even the last GM in the order. I flirted with Wilkins and King, but decided that for a real TEAM, you need role players as well, and I took one of the best left, who can contribute many little things. Interior defense should be very good with Bird/Grant/Howard.

6. King - I was so happy, that I pushed the button immediately. In retrospect, I'm not so sure anymore, and I have absolutely no clue how the judges will see him, especially paired with Bird for some minutes. But I felt I needed an efficient scorer who can also work from the post... I couldn't find any other stand-out players in round 6, and backup C's & PG's were available in abundance, so I waited a round on that department.

7. Divac - PG or C? Similar to round 2, I went to grab another center at this point. Laimbeer was on my mind, but there was some bad blood between him and Larry. Sampson was my other idea, but I went with the less spectacular, more solid Vlade. I still saw some 5-6 good PG options.

8. Harper - Cheeks was my favorite, but he got grabbed at the beginning of the round. At this point, I also took a look at Pressey. And I would have absolutely grabbed Artest, if his 02-04 Pacers version would have been available (I don't think I'm the only one though). Harper is another solid role player, who plays D, and a capable shooter.

9. Majerle - there was a gaping hole at SG in my roster behind the relatively smaller minutes of Manu, so grabbing a SG was a must. Maybe, I should have done it earlier. I still flirted with Pressey, but I thought I needed more of a traditional SHOOTING guard... I saw 3 choices: Majerle, Ainge (!) and Raja Bell. The obvious homer pick was Thunder Dan, and maybe he is the most versatile of the three.

10. Josh Smith - Grant and Bird will carry the majority of the minutes at PF, so I didn't draft a traditional PF... these were the players I considered in order: (don't laugh at me, please! ) Ac Green, Kurt Rambis , Lee, Chambers... and Amare. I chose Smith because he gives me some flexibility.

Sorry for the length.

[john248]

Would've been rather sad if you didn't pick up Majerle. lol

[Narigo]

PG:Byron Scott 87-89
SG:Michael Jordan 90-92
SF:Marques Johnson 80-82
PF:LaMarcus Aldridge 12-14
C: Jack Sikma 82-84


PG:Kirk Hinrich 05-07
SG:Michael Cooper 86-88
SF:Kyle Korver 12-14
PF:Bobby Jones 80-82
C: Ben Wallace 02-04

[whitehops]

barkley 88-90
paul 07-09
gasol 09-11
kirilenko 02-04
sabonis 96-98
harden 12-14
barry 01-03
cheeks 83-85
horford 09-11
lewis 08-10

[RSCD3_]

Yao Ming 03-05
Kevin McHale 86-88
Peja Stojakovic 02-04
Eddie Jones 97-99
LeBron James 12-14

DeMarcus Cousins 12-14
David West 08-10
Gerald wallace 08-10
Reggie lewis 91-93
Allen iverson 00-02





Sent from my SCH-I800 using RealGM Forums mobile app

[whitehops]

here was the way I went about drafting: I wanted a team that was predicated on ball movement and spacing. while I don't have many elite shooters every player on my roster (big men included!) has at least consistent mid-range capability (cheeks actually might be the worst here). every player on my roster is a good passer/playmaker as well (save for lewis). my volume shooters from 3 are barry (43% on 4.1 attempts), harden (36.7% on 5.7 attempts) and lewis (40.1% on 6.6 attempts!).

I also have a very good free throw shooting team. the worst free throw shooter on my team is actually barkley at 75.1%. next worst is al horford at 77.2%.


I knew that there would be a lot of teams drafting a bunch of elite talent on defense so I tried to combat that by picking up extremely efficient, team-oriented players. my first round pick was barkley and paul so my team started out tiny which is why I wanted size inside to go with length and versatility on the wings. I have a 7'3 sabonis, 7'0 gasol, 6'10 mobile horford with kirilenko and lewis who are both 6'9/6'10 and have freak wingspans. I also knew that I would need some size to fix my relative lack of athleticism.

sabonis is really underappreciated defensively, I feel. he is a big body that should be able to slow down all the great bigs that were drafted.


turning point for my team: when Dwight was drafted before my third pick. I would have had a mind-blowing pick and roll duo with him and paul, plus (imo) the best defensive big man in the draft, since the game would be played with today's rules. I would have loaded up on shooters and 3-and-D guys. my team would have been a lot more one-dimensional. however, he got picked and I went with pau, who I am very happy with as well. the rest is history.

players I was really targeting:
Dwight - got gasol instead
marion - got kirilenko instead
manu - got harden instead
david robinson - was ecstatic to get him with my first pick until I realized he was already drafted lol


PS I love where I picked. having the first pick of the round from rounds 2-4 was huge, and while being at the end of the snake sucks because you have to reach to draft a player you might like or risk losing him I found it really helpful to pick two players in a row because I could draft players that fit my team better.

[MisterHibachi]

What did you guys think of the draft order? Did the ABBBABABA even things out? I thought it ended up being fair.

[john248]

I got most of the guys where I thought they would fall.

Kareem was the easy pick. I did consider Kobe and David Robinson here, but Kareem is really 1 of 3 centers here who really does have the ability to have an offense run through him. Due to his scoring ability and passing, plays can be run to feint a low post scoring in order to create opportunities elsewhere. He's still a pretty good shot blocker too.

TMac was then the 2nd player I targeted since he had a great peak in 03. He's the playmaker I need on the wing to pair with KAJ. He's good at putting the ball on the floor to drive to the hoop, can shoot the 3, as well as create opportunities for others.

Ray is the GOAT 3 point shooter. I actually had other guys, along with him, targeted here: Penny, Paul Pierce, and Reggie. Had all of them been available, I probably would've gone with Reggie due to his ability to raise his game in the playoffs though Penny would've been tough to turn down. In the end, I'm very happy with Allen as plays can be run for him to run past baseline screens for corner 3's, and he offers a little more than Reggie in terms of a bit more play making and handles.

Larry Nance is probably a pick most would view as too early, however he is a great teammate who had a good mid-range jumper, finishes well, and a good defender being on the 1st and 2nd teams; but he's not that good of a rebounder which hurts a bit. I actually had Rasheed, not a good rebounder either, and Chauncey targeted here, but both were taken. It ended up being between Nance, Bosh, Porter, and Price at this point.

Porter is the player who I wanted here and got as he can initiate an offense, play off-ball, score, and defend. He was phenomenal during those deep Portland playoff runs where his PER36 numbers were consistent, but his efficiency went up. At this point, I'm very happy with this team as the offense is well balanced, good half-court offense, and with guys who are good playoff performers too.

Elton Brand was 1 of 2 players I was targeting here with the other being Kevin Johnson.

Chandler was the easy choice at this pick here. Great vocal defender, great rebounder, and a guy who knows what he is as if he doesn't have a clear path to the hoop, he will pass it off versus a guy like Camby who will hold onto the ball. I might be able to do twin tower line-up with this guy at the end of games.

Michael Redd is someone I was surprised who fell a bit given his 3 point shooting and a solid ability to get his shot off. Drafted out of college for his defense, but was nothing special on that end in the pro's...just solid.

Batum is just a player I like. Good man defender, mediocre help defender. He can shoot the 3 and initiate the offense.

Derrick Rose. I just wanted to pick the last MVP even if I preferred Ainge, but he does have value as a scorer and a guy who can drive and dish.

I hated my draft position being dead center in the middle of every round.

[john248]

What did you guys think of the draft order? Did the ABBBABABA even things out? I thought it ended up being fair.

I liked it. Better than potentially going up against Shaq, Penny, and whatever. Much rather face the current Shaq + body builders team.

[whitehops]

about the snake order... I feel that drafting three times in a row at the beginning of the round was a little much to be honest. I think ABBABABABA or something like that would've been more fair.

[ardee]

I was just about to type up a long post with my reasoning for picking who I did but then I realized that it was obvious. I just wanted to spam threes as much as possible and maintain good defense

The first two basically picked themselves. I knew my pick would be either Dirk or KG right from the get-go. I did vaguely consider Pippen or T-Mac with my second rounder but could I really go anywhere else than Stevie (though if Ewing'd still been available I'd have probably taken him).

I slightly panicked with Parish, maybe I could've gotten a wing and taken someone else later but I think it worked out.

Rice was my steal of the draft, he really takes my offense to another level.

After that it, the bench was basically complimentary role players and defenders. If I need to go lockdown, I'll throw Dumars-Bell-Pressey-Nowitzki-Parish out and still be a better version of the '11 Mavs with great defense at 4 positions and a GOAT level offensive anchor.

I don't believe in having too many iso scorers like some of the guys on the draft. LeBron and Wade were two of the most versatile players in the game and look how long it took for them to figure things out... And even then, one of them had his impact completely minimized. 4 or 5 20+ ppg scorers who need the ball in their hands will be hard. That's why I was careful to select guys around Nash who could score but as finishers. Dirk will be my first option but Nash is the guy with the ball in his hands, and we know Dirk is one of the best off-ball players ever, so it's going to work out great.

If I get one of the worse defensive teams in the first round (I have my eye on a couple, not going to say who), I'd be confident of my team breaking the three-point record against them.

[ardee]

about the snake order... I feel that drafting three times in a row at the beginning of the round was a little much to be honest. I think ABBABABABA or something like that would've been more fair.

Well, to be fair, they did get Jordan and Magic and you and me got Barkley and Dirk. It's not a small difference.

[MisterHibachi]

If I get one of the worse defensive teams in the first round (I have my eye on a couple, not going to say who), I'd be confident of my team breaking the three-point record against them.

I think I could do a good job slowing you down. I got Marion, Iggy and Ibaka to throw at Dirk; Wade and Iggy for Nash. Slow down those two and your offense will falter. Easier said than done tho. Marion would probably be the best possible guy to defend Dirk, other than Rodman imo

[Narigo]

What did you guys think of the draft order? Did the ABBBABABA even things out? I thought it ended up being fair.

Having the last pick for three rounds felt a bit unfair. I wish it was just a regular snake ABABABABAB draft style.

[ardee]

If I get one of the worse defensive teams in the first round (I have my eye on a couple, not going to say who), I'd be confident of my team breaking the three-point record against them.

I think I could do a good job slowing you down. I got Marion, Iggy and Ibaka to throw at Dirk; Wade and Iggy for Nash. Slow down those two and your offense will falter. Easier said than done tho. Marion would probably be the best possible guy to defend Dirk, other than Rodman imo

Dirk's Playoff record against Marion is 27-12-4 on 46-44-85 shooting Against Ibaka it's 32-6-3 on 56-36-97.

I am definitely worried about your team. Not because of the possibility of Dirk being contained, but because it's going to be hard for my shooters to swing the ball around like I'd like when Marion, Wade and Iggy are playing the passing lanes. And because I WILL have to play exclusively an outside game when faced with Eaton and Ibaka, except for when I post with Dirk (which will be a lot).

Anyway we're not even in the same conference so there's time to figure out a gameplan if we see each other in the Finals