2021-22 NBA Season Discussion

RCM88x · Post #1061 » by **RCM88x** » Thu Jan 20, 2022 7:29 am

falcolombardi wrote:we live in an era where the 3 best players in the world are all 7 footers Born outside the states

and i think that is beatiful

Shows that player "development" in the United States is non-existent outside of score first guards.

Ballerhogger · Post #1062 » by **Ballerhogger** » Thu Jan 20, 2022 7:40 am

RCM88x wrote:
falcolombardi wrote:we live in an era where the 3 best players in the world are all 7 footers Born outside the states

and i think that is beatiful

Shows that player "development" in the United States is non-existent outside of score first guards.

Lebron James from Akron!

Kevin Durant from us . I mean I don’t think 100% but international players are really booming right now

HeartBreakKid · Post #1063 » by **HeartBreakKid** » Thu Jan 20, 2022 1:31 pm

RCM88x wrote:
falcolombardi wrote:we live in an era where the 3 best players in the world are all 7 footers Born outside the states

and i think that is beatiful

Shows that player "development" in the United States is non-existent outside of score first guards.

Not really, and Embiid learned how to play basketball in USA.

Colbinii · Post #1064 » by **Colbinii** » Thu Jan 20, 2022 1:34 pm

RCM88x wrote:
falcolombardi wrote:we live in an era where the 3 best players in the world are all 7 footers Born outside the states

and i think that is beatiful

Shows that player "development" in the United States is non-existent outside of score first guards.

Embiid developed purely in the USA. Giannis developed mostly in the USA.

Post #1065 » by **Doctor MJ** » Thu Jan 20, 2022 2:25 pm

I find myself fantasizing about time traveling back to the early 80s and saying to folks back then:

“Before the turn of the millennium, there will be a man born in a country that does not currently exist who will be a chimera of Bird, Magic & Moses.”

What a wonderful basketball world we live in.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Post #1066 » by **Doctor MJ** » Thu Jan 20, 2022 2:34 pm

Colbinii wrote:
RCM88x wrote:
falcolombardi wrote:we live in an era where the 3 best players in the world are all 7 footers Born outside the states

and i think that is beatiful

Shows that player "development" in the United States is non-existent outside of score first guards.

Embiid developed purely in the USA. Giannis developed mostly in the USA.

Glad you point this out. What we’re seeing much more about expanding talent pool than it is damning of American coaching.

It is however damning of the “real hooper” xenophobia embodied by many American players and represented in media by SAS.

The future of basketball is alien genius like these guys.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

AdagioPace · Post #1067 » by **AdagioPace** » Thu Jan 20, 2022 2:57 pm

Doctor MJ wrote:
Colbinii wrote:
RCM88x wrote:
Shows that player "development" in the United States is non-existent outside of score first guards.

Embiid developed purely in the USA. Giannis developed mostly in the USA.

Glad you point this out. What we’re seeing much more about expanding talent pool than it is damning of American coaching.

It is however damning of the “real hooper” xenophobia embodied by many American players and represented in media by SAS.

The future of basketball is alien genius like these guys.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Maybe the world is producing freaks as always but the NBA is getting better at recognizing/trusting/coaching them

PS: I would point out that europeans (Jokic and Doncic) tend to shape their styles and vision of the game early on in Europe while african/american players often play college basketball in the US.
Giannis is quite unique in this regard...

RCM88x · Post #1068 » by **RCM88x** » Thu Jan 20, 2022 4:26 pm

Colbinii wrote:
RCM88x wrote:
falcolombardi wrote:we live in an era where the 3 best players in the world are all 7 footers Born outside the states

and i think that is beatiful

Shows that player "development" in the United States is non-existent outside of score first guards.

Embiid developed purely in the USA. Giannis developed mostly in the USA.

Who's to say the US system wouldn't have ruined Embiid if they have gotten to him sooner? He played 3 years in the US (really only 2) before the NBA and the 3rd season nearly ruined his career.

Giannis developed purely in Greece before moving into the NBA, I don't think the US system had any impact on him.

falcolombardi · Post #1069 » by **falcolombardi** » Thu Jan 20, 2022 4:31 pm

RCM88x wrote:
Colbinii wrote:
RCM88x wrote:
Shows that player "development" in the United States is non-existent outside of score first guards.

Embiid developed purely in the USA. Giannis developed mostly in the USA.

Who's to say the US system wouldn't have ruined Embiid if they have gotten to him sooner? He played 3 years in the US (really only 2) before the NBA and the 3rd season nearly ruined his career.

Giannis developed purely in Greece before moving into the NBA, I don't think the US system had any impact on him.

i dont see how embiid injuries in college are specifically usa related

Post #1070 » by **Doctor MJ** » Thu Jan 20, 2022 4:34 pm

AdagioPace wrote:
Doctor MJ wrote:
Colbinii wrote:
Embiid developed purely in the USA. Giannis developed mostly in the USA.

Glad you point this out. What we’re seeing much more about expanding talent pool than it is damning of American coaching.

It is however damning of the “real hooper” xenophobia embodied by many American players and represented in media by SAS.

The future of basketball is alien genius like these guys.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Maybe the world is producing freaks as always but the NBA is getting better at recognizing/trusting/coaching them

PS: I would point out that europeans (Jokic and Doncic) tend to shape their styles and vision of the game early on in Europe while african/american players often play college basketball in the US.
Giannis is quite unique in this regard...

Sure, I'll put it this way:

1. There's the number of boys being born with the genetics to potentially be great at basketball.
2. There's the fraction of those boys who are getting the nutrition they need to fully grow into their genetic potential.
3. There's the fraction of those boys who plays basketball seriously while still young enough to become great.
4. There's the fraction of those boys who get the right mentorship to actually become great.
5. There's the fraction of those boys who get "discovered" by NBA scouts.
6. There's the fraction of those boys who get an NBA team to commit to building around them.

All of those points tie in to what we perceive as "talent pool".

Last thing I'll add is that I think we'll have to see in the eras to come what it was that made the 2010s the time when the international talent pool truly broke through.

After Hakeem Olajuwon in 1984 it made sense to think we'd see a flood of Olajuwons soon after, but we didn't.
After Dirk Nowitzki in 1998 it made sense to think we'd see a flood of Nowitzkis soon after, but we didn't.

All the way up through the 2012 draft class, American prospects continued to be dominating no matter how you looked at it. Then in 2013 & 2014 we got Giannis & Jokic respectively at relatively low draft picks, but they - along with Doncic - have really changed how the NBA of the 2020s looks.

Colbinii · Post #1071 » by **Colbinii** » Thu Jan 20, 2022 4:38 pm

RCM88x wrote:
Colbinii wrote:
RCM88x wrote:
Shows that player "development" in the United States is non-existent outside of score first guards.

Embiid developed purely in the USA. Giannis developed mostly in the USA.

Who's to say the US system wouldn't have ruined Embiid if they have gotten to him sooner? He played 3 years in the US (really only 2) before the NBA and the 3rd season nearly ruined his career.

I'm not into these hypothetical's but if you feel this way then all the power to you and your opinion, but im not going to agree with it and I'm definitely not going to discuss such hypotheticals.

Giannis developed purely in Greece before moving into the NBA, I don't think the US system had any impact on him.

Yup, and then developed far more once he arrived in the USA than he did prior to the USA.

Post #1072 » by **Doctor MJ** » Thu Jan 20, 2022 4:38 pm

RCM88x wrote:
Colbinii wrote:
RCM88x wrote:
Shows that player "development" in the United States is non-existent outside of score first guards.

Embiid developed purely in the USA. Giannis developed mostly in the USA.

Who's to say the US system wouldn't have ruined Embiid if they have gotten to him sooner? He played 3 years in the US (really only 2) before the NBA and the 3rd season nearly ruined his career.

Giannis developed purely in Greece before moving into the NBA, I don't think the US system had any impact on him.

Let's get the semantics clear here:

Giannis was a prospect developed in Europe, but he came to the NBA very raw, and it took him several years before he could play like a star.

Jokic was a prospect developed in Europe who was instantly the smartest guy on the NBA court the moment he stepped in as a rookie.

While I'd be hesitant to credit Jokic's genius to any development system, it truly had nothing to do with the NBA, whereas Giannis figured out how to be a dominant basketball player under NBA mentorship.

RCM88x · Post #1073 » by **RCM88x** » Thu Jan 20, 2022 4:41 pm

Colbinii wrote:
RCM88x wrote:
Colbinii wrote:
Embiid developed purely in the USA. Giannis developed mostly in the USA.

Who's to say the US system wouldn't have ruined Embiid if they have gotten to him sooner? He played 3 years in the US (really only 2) before the NBA and the 3rd season nearly ruined his career.

I'm not into these hypothetical's but if you feel this way then all the power to you and your opinion, but im not going to agree with it and I'm definitely not going to discuss such hypotheticals.

Giannis developed purely in Greece before moving into the NBA, I don't think the US system had any impact on him.

Yup, and then developed far more once he arrived in the USA than he did prior to the USA.

I don't consider the NBA the "US" system if that's whats causing confusion here.

Colbinii · Post #1074 » by **Colbinii** » Thu Jan 20, 2022 4:44 pm

Doctor MJ wrote:
RCM88x wrote:
Colbinii wrote:
Embiid developed purely in the USA. Giannis developed mostly in the USA.

Who's to say the US system wouldn't have ruined Embiid if they have gotten to him sooner? He played 3 years in the US (really only 2) before the NBA and the 3rd season nearly ruined his career.

Giannis developed purely in Greece before moving into the NBA, I don't think the US system had any impact on him.

Let's get the semantics clear here:

Giannis was a prospect developed in Europe, but he came to the NBA very raw, and it took him several years before he could play like a star.

Jokic was a prospect developed in Europe who was instantly the smartest guy on the NBA court the moment he stepped in as a rookie.

While I'd be hesitant to credit Jokic's genius to any development system, it truly had nothing to do with the NBA, whereas Giannis figured out how to be a dominant basketball player under NBA mentorship.

I agree.

Luka and Jokic [A lesser extent Nurkic, if we remember he was a great pick by Denver in 2015] were already developed beyond just about any rookie we have seen in recent years.

Jokic was a 4 BPM player as a rookie, thats absolutely absurd. Even thinking back to him is crazy because I know I was high on him but never expected him to be this good.

Colbinii · Post #1075 » by **Colbinii** » Thu Jan 20, 2022 4:44 pm

RCM88x wrote:
Colbinii wrote:
RCM88x wrote:
Who's to say the US system wouldn't have ruined Embiid if they have gotten to him sooner? He played 3 years in the US (really only 2) before the NBA and the 3rd season nearly ruined his career.

I'm not into these hypothetical's but if you feel this way then all the power to you and your opinion, but im not going to agree with it and I'm definitely not going to discuss such hypotheticals.

Giannis developed purely in Greece before moving into the NBA, I don't think the US system had any impact on him.

Yup, and then developed far more once he arrived in the USA than he did prior to the USA.

I don't consider the NBA the "US" system if that's whats causing confusion here.

It is and I see what you mean now, my bad!

falcolombardi · Post #1076 » by **falcolombardi** » Thu Jan 20, 2022 4:45 pm

i comentes it once in a lebron vs doncic comparision when i thought (and seems like i may have been right) that doncic probably was gonna have a much less explosive growth Curve after his insane sophomore season compared to lebron

i thought that because compared to american prospects who only play 1 years at the college level in their 19's (in some cases only high school level) luka had been playing against profesional players since 16 or earlier, his development was really accelerated so the jump from European basketball to nba was much smaller than college (let alone high schol) to nba

somethingh similar seems to have happened with Ricky Rubio, already a professional level player at like 15 yet his growth Curve was not as steep once in the nba

i think European players who play against actual professionals so much earlier have a in built advantage compared to american guys who only play full grown proffesionals starting at 19~

if usa didnt have such a big player pool (and arguably athletism pool) advantage compared to even europe as a whole i wouldnt be surprised if European kids outplayed them semi regularlt because of how much earlier they start competing against adults

itsxtray · Post #1077 » by **itsxtray** » Thu Jan 20, 2022 5:27 pm

RCM88x wrote:
Colbinii wrote:
RCM88x wrote:
Who's to say the US system wouldn't have ruined Embiid if they have gotten to him sooner? He played 3 years in the US (really only 2) before the NBA and the 3rd season nearly ruined his career.

I'm not into these hypothetical's but if you feel this way then all the power to you and your opinion, but im not going to agree with it and I'm definitely not going to discuss such hypotheticals.

Giannis developed purely in Greece before moving into the NBA, I don't think the US system had any impact on him.

Yup, and then developed far more once he arrived in the USA than he did prior to the USA.

I don't consider the NBA the "US" system if that's whats causing confusion here.

Why not? Do you remember the olympics and the prelims when team Usa lost and everyone was **** on the way basketball is taught and played in the US from the Nba down to the HS level? **** was annoying as hell.

I view it all the same because it's a pipeline, the people who run those HS camps and Aau squads have Nba connections & Nba players have their own camps and Aau teams, what do you think they're teaching? You also have the U18 and down team Usa teams, what do you think they're being taught? The U.S system is a giant pipeline with the Nba at the end of it bro.

LukaTheGOAT · Post #1078 » by **LukaTheGOAT** » Thu Jan 20, 2022 5:58 pm

itsxtray wrote:
RCM88x wrote:
Colbinii wrote:
I'm not into these hypothetical's but if you feel this way then all the power to you and your opinion, but im not going to agree with it and I'm definitely not going to discuss such hypotheticals.

Yup, and then developed far more once he arrived in the USA than he did prior to the USA.

I don't consider the NBA the "US" system if that's whats causing confusion here.

Why not? Do you remember the olympics and the prelims when team Usa lost and everyone was **** on the way basketball is taught and played in the US from the Nba down to the HS level? **** was annoying as hell.

I view it all the same because it's a pipeline, the people who run those HS camps and Aau squads have Nba connections & Nba players have their own camps and Aau teams, what do you think they're teaching? You also have the U18 and down team Usa teams, what do you think they're being taught? The U.S system is a giant pipeline with the Nba at the end of it bro.

Would also like to add that.

Embiid moved to the U.S at 16 and he wasn't the greatest thing right off the bat.

Watch on YouTube

He played JV

Watch on YouTube

itsxtray · Post #1079 » by **itsxtray** » Thu Jan 20, 2022 7:13 pm

LukaTheGOAT wrote:
itsxtray wrote:
RCM88x wrote:
I don't consider the NBA the "US" system if that's whats causing confusion here.

Why not? Do you remember the olympics and the prelims when team Usa lost and everyone was **** on the way basketball is taught and played in the US from the Nba down to the HS level? **** was annoying as hell.

I view it all the same because it's a pipeline, the people who run those HS camps and Aau squads have Nba connections & Nba players have their own camps and Aau teams, what do you think they're teaching? You also have the U18 and down team Usa teams, what do you think they're being taught? The U.S system is a giant pipeline with the Nba at the end of it bro.

Would also like to add that.

Embiid moved to the U.S at 16 and he wasn't the greatest thing right off the bat.

Watch on YouTube

He played JV

Watch on YouTube

Yep, this man developed in the US, saying anything else is false.

HeartBreakKid · Post #1080 » by **HeartBreakKid** » Fri Jan 21, 2022 12:15 am

RCM88x wrote:
Colbinii wrote:
RCM88x wrote:
Shows that player "development" in the United States is non-existent outside of score first guards.

Embiid developed purely in the USA. Giannis developed mostly in the USA.

Who's to say the US system wouldn't have ruined Embiid if they have gotten to him sooner? He played 3 years in the US (really only 2) before the NBA and the 3rd season nearly ruined his career.

Giannis developed purely in Greece before moving into the NBA, I don't think the US system had any impact on him.

Your argument makes no sense as most of the best basketball players are still American....

"Nikola Jokic and Giannis are the best players, therefore USA sucks at developing players"

This is the actual logic you just used.

Do you guys really think if someone has the talent to be the best player in the world, it has to be because of where they trained? That isn't how competition works. Giannis is one of the best basketball players in the world and he learned how to play like yesterday.

Who are these imaginary players who would be the best player in the world if they grew up in Serbia and not in the USA? This is just ESPN and average joe sensationalism.

Only the best of the best players from other countries come to play in the NBA, so naturally some of them will stick out more - they will be special by design.