The Lebron Thread (2015-16 Pt. 3)

[RSCD3_]

Probably a clickbait hollywood BS story but here's a theory that lebron james is trying to convince steph curry's possible "side chick" to show up in cleveland and distract him with her charm. Big if true. Lol

http://hollywoodlife.com/2016/06/06/lebron-james-steph-curry-side-chick-nba-finals-roni-rose-distraction/

[Greatness]

Probably a clickbait hollywood BS story but here's a theory that lebron james is trying to convince steph curry's possible "side chick" to show up in cleveland and distract him with her charm. Big if true. Lol

http://hollywoodlife.com/2016/06/06/lebron-james-steph-curry-side-chick-nba-finals-roni-rose-distraction/

Lol come on, that's ridiculous.

[JLei]

On a semi off related topic.

Does that OKC series change your opinion on 2013 Heat (healthy Wade) vs. 2016 Warriors? Only reinforces my opinion that, that team would be super well equipped to deal with them since the 2013 Heat were length, athleticism and switching at every position and in crunch time the rotation and speed was frightening on the defensive end.

Obviously with a better Bron it's much harder to defend since you can't afford to go under and Wade is the type of guard that Klay has trouble with (he's absolutely fantastic against smaller quicker guys) with Physical, crafty and good at drawing fouls.

I'm actually pretty certain those Heat would win a series after seeing what OKC was able to do. Chalmers/ Allen, Wade, Lebron, Battier, Bosh would be able to handle them while being bigger just on virtue of having Bron and Bosh out there.

[colts18]

On a semi off related topic.

Does that OKC series change your opinion on 2013 Heat (healthy Wade) vs. 2016 Warriors? Only reinforces my opinion that, that team would be super well equipped to deal with them since the 2013 Heat were length, athleticism and switching at every position and in crunch time the rotation and speed was frightening on the defensive end.

Obviously with a better Bron it's much harder to defend since you can't afford to go under and Wade is the type of guard that Klay has trouble with (he's absolutely fantastic against smaller quicker guys) with Physical, crafty and good at drawing fouls.

I'm actually pretty certain those Heat would win a series after seeing what OKC was able to do. Chalmers/ Allen, Wade, Lebron, Battier, Bosh would be able to handle them while being bigger just on virtue of having Bron and Bosh out there.

The 2013 Heat had trouble against good shooting and good ball movement teams. GSW would destroy them with ball movement. Those open 3 pointers they let Indiana have would be easy buckets for the Warriors.

[Greatness]

Also, the 2013 Heat were 26th in offensive rebounding which is one of the biggest reasons OKC gave the Warriors trouble.

[JulesWinnfield]

Crazy scenario that has no chance of happening, but let me just throw it out there, tell me what you guys think...

Durant obviously a free agent. If he chooses to leave OKC and not opt to join the Warriors, how about a Love for KD centered sign and trade deal? Kevin Love and Westbrook are obviously very tight, college teammates and still close friends. If OKC fears losing Durant for nothing, you could do a lot worse than Love. If I'm the Cavs I at least heavily investigate this. Joining forces with Lebron is tricky from a PR standpoint but it wouldn't be seen nearly in the same light as joining a back to back champ and 73 win team in Golden State.

I obviously think it has no chance of happening, but if it did how do you guys think this could play out with regards to the dynamics vs Golden State?

[bondom34]

No. Just no.

[JulesWinnfield]

No. Just no.

What if Durant leaving becomes inevitable? Would you rather just let him walk as opposed to taking Love on? If so I can understand that too, but what are you doing if he's out the door and this becomes a fallback option on the table? It's obviously not an ideal choice for OKC, but there is only one ideal choice and that's Durant opting to stay

[JLei]

On a semi off related topic.

Does that OKC series change your opinion on 2013 Heat (healthy Wade) vs. 2016 Warriors? Only reinforces my opinion that, that team would be super well equipped to deal with them since the 2013 Heat were length, athleticism and switching at every position and in crunch time the rotation and speed was frightening on the defensive end.

Obviously with a better Bron it's much harder to defend since you can't afford to go under and Wade is the type of guard that Klay has trouble with (he's absolutely fantastic against smaller quicker guys) with Physical, crafty and good at drawing fouls.

I'm actually pretty certain those Heat would win a series after seeing what OKC was able to do. Chalmers/ Allen, Wade, Lebron, Battier, Bosh would be able to handle them while being bigger just on virtue of having Bron and Bosh out there.

The 2013 Heat had trouble against good shooting and good ball movement teams. GSW would destroy them with ball movement. Those open 3 pointers they let Indiana have would be easy buckets for the Warriors.

Letting Indiana shoot open 3's is different than what they would do vs. Golden State. Come on now. Also they were having legitimate trouble with Hibbert (funny to say now but legitimate at the time) and collapsing their defense completely because he was killing them inside. Warriors don't have anyone big like that.

The teams that beat that Heat team were all slow paced defensive teams that just stopped them.

Boston, Indiana, Chicago

Only 5 losses to the west which is the more free flowing ball movement conference. I don't where this myth came that ball movement killed them. True for the 14 Heat who were playing the same style with broken players (Battier unplayable, Wade breaking down etc, Bron being lazy) but 13 Heat no way.

You can site the Finals and honestly it was a fantastic adjustment/ coaching by Pop early in the series (the Danny Green cut) that **** with the Heat. They corrected in Game 6 and 7 and they were able to completely shut him down as well as Tony Parker.

The Heat's style did leave some very easy baskets for the Hibbert's and Duncan's of the world. But Golden State doesn't have anyone that big that is really good (maybe Ezeli).

[JLei]

No. Just no.

What if Durant leaving becomes inevitable? Would you rather just let him walk as opposed to taking Love on? If so I can understand that too, but what are you doing if he's out the door and this becomes a fallback option on the table? It's obviously not an ideal choice for OKC, but there is only one ideal choice and that's Durant opting to stay

Durant would never go to Cleveland. But if he's like I'm signing with the Lakers unless you sign and trade me to whatever team of course OKC would have to consider it.

Because every body including many desirable free agent destinations have cap space, the very few teams over the cap can still swing stuff because the free agents have leverage.

But come on now. No way Durant would force his way to Cleveland. But Love would be a compelling offer in this fantasy land vs. what the Warriors/ Heat/ Spurs could offer.

[JulesWinnfield]

No. Just no.

What if Durant leaving becomes inevitable? Would you rather just let him walk as opposed to taking Love on? If so I can understand that too, but what are you doing if he's out the door and this becomes a fallback option on the table? It's obviously not an ideal choice for OKC, but there is only one ideal choice and that's Durant opting to stay

Durant would never go to Cleveland. But if he's like I'm signing with the Lakers unless you sign and trade me to whatever team of course OKC would have to consider it.

Because every body including many desirable free agent destinations have cap space, the very few teams over the cap can still swing stuff because the free agents have leverage.

But come on now. No way Durant would force his way to Cleveland.

I don't think he will either. Lebron being seen as his biggest personal rival and the city of Cleveland in general (no offense to anyone) are big obstacles. But hey, if he's going to leave (I don't think he should), this is probably his best chance to win while not being seen as a total punk. Joining Golden State coming off 73 wins and back to back titles (including beating him in the process) would just be insane. Say what you want about LeBron summer 2010, this wouldn't even be comparable. It's an entirely new level.

[bondom34]

No. Just no.

What if Durant leaving becomes inevitable? Would you rather just let him walk as opposed to taking Love on? If so I can understand that too, but what are you doing if he's out the door and this becomes a fallback option on the table? It's obviously not an ideal choice for OKC, but there is only one ideal choice and that's Durant opting to stay

Yes. There's a zero chance the Cavs get him, and setting up a superteam isn't on the list of stuff to do. He's not getting a sign and trade anywhere.

You wanna clear cap for him, go for it. And what does OKC do with Ibaka and Love and Adams and Kanter? And if they wanna play together why not sign and trade Lebron for Ibaka? He's a free agent too when he opts out.

[JLei]

No. Just no.

What if Durant leaving becomes inevitable? Would you rather just let him walk as opposed to taking Love on? If so I can understand that too, but what are you doing if he's out the door and this becomes a fallback option on the table? It's obviously not an ideal choice for OKC, but there is only one ideal choice and that's Durant opting to stay

Yes. There's a zero chance the Cavs get him, and setting up a superteam isn't on the list of stuff to do. He's not getting a sign and trade anywhere.

You wanna clear cap for him, go for it. And what does OKC do with Ibaka and Love and Adams and Kanter? And if they wanna play together why not sign and trade Lebron for Ibaka? He's a free agent too when he opts out.

I think you are underselling the possibility. He can make it perfectly clear. I'm out, I'm giving you a chance to get something for me and send me to a more desirable situation otherwise I'm signing with X (probably the Lakers).

As a GM you have to do what's best for your team in that scenario. I'd rather get something than nothing. Kevin Love is a 3 time all star/ 2 time All-NBA 2nd team player. He might be worth it. Clippers might throw you Blake Griffin. That's something.

[JulesWinnfield]

No. Just no.

What if Durant leaving becomes inevitable? Would you rather just let him walk as opposed to taking Love on? If so I can understand that too, but what are you doing if he's out the door and this becomes a fallback option on the table? It's obviously not an ideal choice for OKC, but there is only one ideal choice and that's Durant opting to stay

Yes. There's a zero chance the Cavs get him, and setting up a superteam isn't on the list of stuff to do. He's not getting a sign and trade anywhere.

You wanna clear cap for him, go for it. And what does OKC do with Ibaka and Love and Adams and Kanter? And if they wanna play together why not sign and trade Lebron for Ibaka? He's a free agent too when he opts out.

If he does leave though (I tend to think he stays) it will be to help build what he considers to be a "super team." Maybe even joining the actual super team of all super teams that just won 73 games and is two wins shy of going back to back. He's not leaving to join some rebuild process with him as the first piece. The laker stuff is even more of a pipe dream in my view than even joining the Cavs, and I think there is virtually no chance he joins the Cavs. It's something I would absolutely get in his ear about though if I'm Lebron and Cavs management the first minute of free agency

[HurricaneKid]

There is zero excuse for LeBron to not be a solid jump shooter from both mid-range and 3. He doesn't even need to be that good; if he can hit 37% consistently from 3 on good volume (i.e. whenever teams go under screens and leave him wide open) he would be almost unstoppable, even given his declining athleticism. Also, while's he at it, improving his mechanics should improve his DAMN FT% to like 78% - 80%.

Botton Line: He either wants to be great still and works like mad on his jump shot or he's done as a top 10 player.

You are now saying that in order to be effective LeBron needs to shoot the same % as Larry Bird on higher volume. Its an indefensible assertion.

He is a mediocre (at best) shooter. Its not like you can fix that after 13 years in the league. I really think the miles are catching up to him. His legs tire quicker than they used to be and that's a deathknell for a shooter. And you can tell he shoots too much with his upper body. I suspect his shooting is going to get worse not better.

[GSP]

Probably a clickbait hollywood BS story but here's a theory that lebron james is trying to convince steph curry's possible "side chick" to show up in cleveland and distract him with her charm. Big if true. Lol

http://hollywoodlife.com/2016/06/06/lebron-james-steph-curry-side-chick-nba-finals-roni-rose-distraction/

Lol come on, that's ridiculous.

I wish it was true, absolutely comical how ppl come up with this stuff lmao.

[JulesWinnfield]

You are now saying that in order to be effective LeBron needs to shoot the same % as Larry Bird on higher volume. Its an indefensible assertion.

He is a mediocre (at best) shooter. Its not like you can fix that after 13 years in the league. I really think the miles are catching up to him. His legs tire quicker than they used to be and that's a deathknell for a shooter. And you can tell he shoots too much with his upper body. I suspect his shooting is going to get worse not better.

Don't know how that happened but the way you quoted that appears as if I stated the thing in bold which you replied to, and I did not. That was from another poster. I got the notification that I was quoted and your post appears that it was my quote, but I did not say that

[bondom34]

What if Durant leaving becomes inevitable? Would you rather just let him walk as opposed to taking Love on? If so I can understand that too, but what are you doing if he's out the door and this becomes a fallback option on the table? It's obviously not an ideal choice for OKC, but there is only one ideal choice and that's Durant opting to stay

Yes. There's a zero chance the Cavs get him, and setting up a superteam isn't on the list of stuff to do. He's not getting a sign and trade anywhere.

You wanna clear cap for him, go for it. And what does OKC do with Ibaka and Love and Adams and Kanter? And if they wanna play together why not sign and trade Lebron for Ibaka? He's a free agent too when he opts out.

I think you are underselling the possibility. He can make it perfectly clear. I'm out, I'm giving you a chance to get something for me and send me to a more desirable situation otherwise I'm signing with X (probably the Lakers).

As a GM you have to do what's best for your team in that scenario. I'd rather get something than nothing. Kevin Love is a 3 time all star/ 2 time All-NBA 2nd team player. He might be worth it. Clippers might throw you Blake Griffin. That's something.

I'm not underselling anything, and there's no obligation to sign and trade. It doesn't benefit the player, and doesn't help the team. If I'm stuck with a terrible fit in Love, why not use the cap space gained for a wing who actually fits instead of having 5 guys who play C?

[bondom34]

What if Durant leaving becomes inevitable? Would you rather just let him walk as opposed to taking Love on? If so I can understand that too, but what are you doing if he's out the door and this becomes a fallback option on the table? It's obviously not an ideal choice for OKC, but there is only one ideal choice and that's Durant opting to stay

Yes. There's a zero chance the Cavs get him, and setting up a superteam isn't on the list of stuff to do. He's not getting a sign and trade anywhere.

You wanna clear cap for him, go for it. And what does OKC do with Ibaka and Love and Adams and Kanter? And if they wanna play together why not sign and trade Lebron for Ibaka? He's a free agent too when he opts out.

If he does leave though (I tend to think he stays) it will be to help build what he considers to be a "super team." Maybe even joining the actual super team of all super teams that just won 73 games and is two wins shy of going back to back. He's not leaving to join some rebuild process with him as the first piece. The laker stuff is even more of a pipe dream in my view than even joining the Cavs, and I think there is virtually no chance he joins the Cavs. It's something I would absolutely get in his ear about though if I'm Lebron and Cavs management the first minute of free agency

I'd get in Lebron's ear and do a sign and trade for Ibaka if Lebron wants to win.

[tone wone]

Do we really think that three years ago, Lebron would have recruited any of these players? Yes, it sounds great to say things after the fact about how "obvious" to see how good these role players would become. Yet, it takes the best player on a team to allow others to become contributors.

I remember when the Cavs signed Larry Hughes, a guy coming off his best year with Washington, and was suppose to team up with Lebron to form the next Michael/Scottie. That never materialized, Hughes just got worse every year, and I thought "Man, that was a bad signing by the Cavs...Larry didn't do jack for Lebron!"

How many times do we say that about players next to Lebron?

I think its easier to name the players that have flourished next to Lebron:

Mo Williams
Dwyane Wade (at times)
Varejao
Illgauskas
JJ Hickson

Then the players who are not living up to expectations:

Kyrie
Love
Bosh
Hughes
Mozgov


What you see is that All Star caliber players tend to underachieve next to Lebron. This is seen in multiple situations, different teams, different coaches, different organizations. We hear the same thing, the others need to step up. Why is that always the same refrain with a Lebron led team? If you think about it, its easier to make a role player look good because nobody expects anything from them. Its when you add elite talent that takes real chemistry/leadership/ability to make work......

1. 2015 was career years for both Kyrie and Mozgov. Irving set career highs in FG%, TS%, ORTG, WS, WS/48, VORP

2. Larry Hughes was never an all-star caliber player. He was an injury prone high volume low efficient perimeter player that was solid defensively. His career year, 2005, he missed 21 games. Comes to CLE in 2006 and misses 46 games and had an all-time miserable postseason (11/4/3 39ts% 91ortg in 37mpg!)...Flip Murray was a better option for CLE that year. In some ways his 2007 playoff run almost as a bad cause he was actually healthy that year (11/5/4 45ts% 88org in 35mpg!) I mean, what are you supposed to do with this kind of ineptitude? How can you lay this at someone else's feet? No actually all-star would be this awful at scoring when scoring is literally the only reason for their acclaim.

So this leaves us with Love & Bosh. The same tired argument in which you and those who share you're opinion refuse to acknowledge the decline in production when bigs go from 1st options to 3rd options.