2021-22 NBA Season Discussion

[Dutchball97]

Maybe the 2nd greatest PS run by a PF ever. Never forget, just look at my signature.

Isn't this pushing it a bit? 2003 Duncan and 2011 Dirk are easily better PF runs to me at least. 1993 Barkley could also be argued as having a better season by virtue of being the first option. Considering LeBron in 2013 and Bird in 1984 are listed as PFs too I'd easily take those runs over 2020 AD as well but I suspect most people see LeBron and Bird as SFs regardless.

I said maybe 2nd greatest ever. 2003 Duncan would be ahead for me. But statistically his 2020 PS run is superior to 2011 Dirk and 1993 Barkley, as his scoring was just as devastating (if not more) then there's while also being arguably the best defensive anchor in the league. Now depending on how you account for context, maybe it wouldn't be ahead of those guys, but the numbers certainly are in his favor.

I was considering Lebron and Bird as small forwards to be honest, so I didn't really think of them.

Makes sense, I think 2006 Dirk should also be mentioned if we're just looking at statistics. 2021 Giannis maybe a little bit behind but at least a better case than 93 Barkley when we're just looking at the stats too.

In any case the point still stand that AD had an amazing run in 2020 but looking at how things have trended for him since along with his long injury history I'm afraid we might never see him perform at that level again.

[falcolombardi]

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34 points/+9 rts is absolutely insanity

Michael Jordan never had a combination of volume and efficiency like that (nor lebron, nor anyone else i can think about)

[falcolombardi]

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34 points/+9 rts is absolutely insanity

Michael Jordan never had a combination of volume and efficiency like that (nor lebron, nor anyone else i can think about)

[eminence]

A full season sure, a 16 game run, it's been matched a fair amount.

Steph's last 24 games last season were 37 ppg at +10 rTS.

[falcolombardi]

A full season sure, a 16 game run, it's been matched a fair amount.

Steph's last 24 games last season were 37 ppg at +10 rTS.

of course, i missed the "small sample" disclaimer

but it is a way to point out how insane embiid scoring has been since late december

if he keeps it up it may be a histórical scoring season

[70sFan]

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34 points/+9 rts is absolutely insanity

Michael Jordan never had a combination of volume and efficiency like that (nor lebron, nor anyone else i can think about)

It's 16 games sample, I can find quite a few comparably impressive 16 games samples just from other centers. Two from top of my head:

1972 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar: 40.5 ppg on +13 rTS% (15 games)
1982 Moses Malone: 38.2 ppg on +8 rTS% (18 games)

[eminence]

A full season sure, a 16 game run, it's been matched a fair amount.

Steph's last 24 games last season were 37 ppg at +10 rTS.

of course, i missed the "small sample" disclaimer

but it is a way to point out how insane embiid scoring has been since late december

if he keeps it up it may be a histórical scoring season

He started 'slow' enough (relative to other all-time great scoring seasons) that he'd probably have to come back doing it next season to challenge the top of the volume/efficiency chart (KAJ/Steph/Wilt/Barkley). If he kept it up from here out he could probably get to 10 status (per game, he's missed enough games that it hurts) for a RS scorer.

[Doctor MJ]

A full season sure, a 16 game run, it's been matched a fair amount.

Steph's last 24 games last season were 37 ppg at +10 rTS.

of course, i missed the "small sample" disclaimer

but it is a way to point out how insane embiid scoring has been since late december

if he keeps it up it may be a histórical scoring season

Yup, Ben talks about him there basically being the closest thing we've seen to Wilt...except he can shoot free throws so that can't be used against him by the opponent.

Comparisons with Wilt inevitably sound crazy, and I certainly don't want to ignore the fact that Embiid's durability is specifically a major weakness where for Wilt it was a major strength, but yeah, Embiid is an absolutely top tier player who shouldn't be seen as a tier below anyone in his actual play.

Won't be surprised at all if he quickly starts gaining MVP narrative traction and wins the thing, though I still think Jokic has been even more impressive.

[Doctor MJ]

Kind of sad that Davis is an afterthought in this big dudes era right now. Age 28 could have been his MVP season or something.

Very sad, and we'll see how things go, but it does seem to be a reminder that every human ages differently. We thought - and LeBron certainly did too - that AD would be peaking now and carrying the Lakers, and instead he often looks older out there than LeBron does.

[eminence]

For reference, the top 6 full RS volume/efficiency combos in NBA history (chronological order)

'62 Wilt: 50.4 ppg(1st, duh), +5.7 rTS% (5th)
'67 Wilt: 24.1 ppg (5th), +14.4 rTS% (1st)
'71 KAJ: 31.7 ppg (1st), +10.6 rTS% (2nd)
'72 KAJ: 34.8 ppg (1st), +9.9 rTS% (2nd)
'88 Barkley: 28.3 ppg (4th), +12.7 rTS% (1st)
'16 Curry: 30.1 ppg (1st), +12.8 rTS% (1st)

Edit - Top MJ/LeBron seasons, with current Embiid
'89 MJ: 32.5 ppg (1st), +7.7 rTS% (6th)
'14 LBJ: 27.1 ppg (3rd), +10.8 rTS (2nd)
'22 Embiid: 28.7 ppg (3rd), +5.5 rTS (not sure, but kinda low)

[LukaTheGOAT]

Not to spoil the Embiid parade, but has anyone seen a significant decline in his defense due to the enhanced offensive load. The reason why I inquire

against the Heat, Ömer Yurtseven tied a CAREER-HIGH of 22 points (10-12) in 24 minutes of play

against the Wizards, Harrell had 18 points (6-9) in 21 minutes, and Thomas Bryant had 15 points (6-11) in 16 minutes

against the Magic, Mo Mamba had a CAREER HIGH 32 points (12-15) in 30 minutes (28 of that was in the first half on 7 threes and his previous career high was 22)

against the Spurs, Jakob Poeltl had 25 points on 11-16 shooting (career high is 27 points)

TONIGHT against the Pelicans-Willy Hernangómez had a CAREER-HIGH of 29 points on 11-15 shooting

This might not mean anything, but it is a quick glance at a some of his latest games and centers seem to be having more success.

[frica]

Jokic back in the lead.
Also interesting to see CP3 that high.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/friv/mvp.html

[eminence]

I'd have Jokic #1, Curry #2 and some room to spare from there. Probably Giannis #3, not so far out in front of Gobert and crowd.

How do folks feel about Embiids rebounding? He's getting the #s, but the Sixers are pretty meh on the boards and no better with him on court. It's normally an area where I think 1 elite guy can power a whole squad.

[eminence]

Numbers from nbawowy. 11 games since Dray went down. Warriors 6-5, +6.3 (107.8 Off, 101.5 Def - bad offense, mega elite defense). 114.0 offense, 102.6 defense with Steph on (Wiggins/Looney/OPJ/Poole his main running partners - that lineup 135.1/100.9 in 59 minutes).

I'm curious to see whether win/loss record or rating winds up being the more accurate indicator here. If the Warriors are really an all-time great performing defense even without Draymond I'm not even sure what to think any more.

[Peregrine01]

Numbers from nbawowy. 11 games since Dray went down. Warriors 6-5, +6.3 (107.8 Off, 101.5 Def - bad offense, mega elite defense). 114.0 offense, 102.6 defense with Steph on (Wiggins/Looney/OPJ/Poole his main running partners - that lineup 135.1/100.9 in 59 minutes).

Quite incredible how well the defense has held up with Draymond out and how much the offense has suffered in comparison. My best guess is that this defense has gotten so institutionalized that it can run capably without a DPOY while the offense still falls apart without at least one quarterback (either Curry or Dray) on the floor at a time, and especially with Curry shooting poorly. The stuff that GSW runs still looks highly complex.

[70sFan]

The way Curry has been playing last few months, I just can't see him fighting for the MVP candidacy when Jokic has such a marvelous season. Besides Jokic, we also have very strong MVP candidates in Giannis, Embiid and Gobert.

Curry is arguably the best player in the league in a vaccum (I prefer Jokic though), but MVP isn't only about that. Warriors are really good not because Curry reaches GOAT level. He's been very impactful of course, but when his shot doesn't fall his value falls back - like with any other player.

[parsnips33]

The way Curry has been playing last few months, I just can't see him fighting for the MVP candidacy when Jokic has such a marvelous season. Besides Jokic, we also have very strong MVP candidates in Giannis, Embiid and Gobert.

Curry is arguably the best player in the league in a vaccum (I prefer Jokic though), but MVP isn't only about that. Warriors are really good not because Curry reaches GOAT level. He's been very impactful of course, but when his shot doesn't fall his value falls back - like with any other player.

Yeah as impactful as I know that Steph has been this season, I'd still feel weird about him getting MVP considering what guys like Jokic and Embiid are doing this year. That being said, if he has a supernova month to offset January, I'd feel a lot more comfortable with him getting the award

[eminence]

Seems I'm notably lower on Embiid than most it seems.

[eminence]

The way Curry has been playing last few months, I just can't see him fighting for the MVP candidacy when Jokic has such a marvelous season. Besides Jokic, we also have very strong MVP candidates in Giannis, Embiid and Gobert.

Curry is arguably the best player in the league in a vaccum (I prefer Jokic though), but MVP isn't only about that. Warriors are really good not because Curry reaches GOAT level. He's been very impactful of course, but when his shot doesn't fall his value falls back - like with any other player.

Every player of course does even better when they make their shots, but at this point I see Curry's value as pretty weakly tied to his scoring for an offense first player (if defenses change how they defend him this could change).

[The-Power]

Won't be surprised at all if he quickly starts gaining MVP narrative traction and wins the thing, though I still think Jokic has been even more impressive.

What is your take on Giannis? I see them as having very comparable seasons but I'd still give Giannis a slight edge, if only due to having played a bit more. Like you, I'd still have Jokic #1, though.

I know it's been said many times already, but it's crazy that after the supposed decline of the big man in the modern NBA, the three strongest MVP candidates are big men. Crazier even, none of them is Anthony Davis and all of them are playing a vastly different style. It's truly awesome to see!

After these three guys, I'd still have Curry 4th despite the recent struggles. He just makes the Warriors work at incredibly high levels when he's on the floor. Not sure who'd be next, though. Paul? Durant? Feels like there's something of a drop-off after those four guys.

edit: forgot about Gobert. He'd be in the conversation for top 5, too.